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panlives Inner circle 2087 Posts 
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http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/04/bat-value/
Insect-eating bats are worth at least $3 billion — perhaps as much as $54 billion — per year to U.S. agriculture alone, say biologists who evaluated their ecological contributions. With bats threatened by careless wind-turbine development in major flyways and, more pressingly, by the new and dreadful White Nose Syndrome, protecting them isn’t just ethical. It makes bottom-line sense. If bat mortality “continues unabated, we can expect noticeable economic losses to North American agriculture in the next four to five years,” wrote the researchers, whose study was published online March 31 by Science. “A wait-and-see approach to the issue of widespread declines of bat populations is not an option.”
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time." "The dog did nothing in the night-time." "That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes. |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts
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There are wind farms all over around here. Only a human could be stupid enough to run into one accidentally.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-11 10:26, Michael Baker wrote: No, they actually do kill quite a few birds and bats. Based on where you are located I'd guess they probably do a pretty good number on ducks that migrate down the mississippi flyway. Out west they take a lot alot of birds of prey including a decent number of protected birds. It's an unintended consequence that they are just now starting to try and figure out how to rectify. But it's a real issue. |
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts
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This reminds me. I need to got to get one of those bat detectors.
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-11 10:38, Marlin1894 wrote: This depends on who you believe. http://science.howstuffworks.com/environ......irds.htm BTW - No shortage of ducks around here, and when I lived in Alabama, the Canadian Geese population was becoming problematic.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-11 12:07, Michael Baker wrote: How BIG a problem it is depends on who you believe. No one denies that wind turbines do kill some birds. One farm in Altamont CA estimates they kill around 1300 birds of prey a year. I never said it was a MAJOR issue. I said it was a real issue. And one that obviuosly the people who placed the turbines would rather didn't happen. Nor am I saying that it's causing a serious depeletion of any bird population. In the case of ducks, and probably most other birds affected, they have bigger problems than wind turbines. I don't think it's a major problem, but the fact remains they do take out some birds. I just assumed by your remark that "only a human" would be stupid enough to run into one accidently that you weren't aware that windmills do kill some birds and/or bats. I wasn't saying tear them all down or anything. |
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Jeff J. Special user Connecticut 787 Posts
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Are any other sources of energy safer?
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-11 12:53, Old Scratch Johnson wrote: As far as birds? Probably solar, maybe others. I have no idea. Like I said, I don't feel it's a major problem and I believe there are people working on ways to reduce the number of birds killed by them now. |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-11 12:53, Old Scratch Johnson wrote: Well sure. Solar panels on your roof are probably safer. A better question might be, are other sources more effective or reliable? In that case, the answer would be yes, plenty. |
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts
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The US Fish and Wildlife Depts estimate is around 450,000 bird killed a year by wind turbines. Is that alot? I don't know.
The problem that ducks and other birds, and really all wildlife, have isn't from running into wind turbines. Or choking on coal smog or anything like that. It's loss of habitat. Wind and solar farms do have an adverse effect on wildlife habitat. So do a lot of other things, we make these trade offs all the time. I'm not going to argue the merits of wind energy, it's pointless anyway. I believe the estimates are that by 2030 the nation will get about 20% of it's energy from wind. Since I like birds, and like to hunt birds, I'm interested in having the two exist side by side the best way possible. That goes fro everything from a wind farm to a shopping mall. I doesn't hurt to try and reduce the impact on nature when possible. There is always give and take when you develop an area. Another form of renewable energy, hydroelectricity, probably actually enhances and/or creates some habitat for certain animals by damming certain areas and creating lakes and wetlands. At the same time it probably ruins the habitat of some other creature. That's the way life goes. Personally I don't like wind farms simply because I think they look like crap. That's just my personal opinion. I'd rather look at a prairie or a corn field with out the turbines. But I accept them. I also make fun of them though. Everytime I'm driving down the road with someone and I see one I say "you'd never know it to look at em, but one of those giant windmills can power up to three light bulbs!" |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts
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Put this into terms of pros vs cons. How much wildlife (and human livelihoods) was damaged and destroyed by one f***ed-up BP oil rig, not to mention the residual effects on wildlife (and all other life) due to the carbon emissions resulting from the use of the oil had it been pumped. Compared to the energy a few hundred square miles worth of wind turbines produce relative to the amount of bird slaw they leave on the ground, I have no problem choosing sides.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Jeff J. Special user Connecticut 787 Posts
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[quote]On 2012-07-11 13:11, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-11 12:53, Old Scratch Johnson wrote: Well sure. Solar panels on your roof are probably safer. "A better question might be, are other sources more effective or reliable? In that case, the answer would be yes, plenty." And what if they put up tons of solar panels? Birds would see a reflection and start flying into them like they do when they see a mirror. Then what happens when all the birds start dying when they crash into the solar panels? We could always move back into the caveman days. |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts
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Agreed wind farms don't do wonders for the scenery, but neither did telephone poles, or cell towers. Something we'll probably learn to live with that won't be as detrimental as previous choices for energy.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Jeff J. Special user Connecticut 787 Posts
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I firmly believe that a well designed and maintained nuclear power plant provides the safest, most efficient energy. People sometimes don't understand them and just oppose them.
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts
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Just since aesthetics were mentioned: I kind of think the wind-turbines between the Columbia river and Ellensburg are kind of an interesting site. Although the cadence of the spinning isn't the best in the middle of a long-ish drive
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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On 2012-07-11 18:38, Old Scratch Johnson wrote: I wonder if the folks who lived in or near Fukishima would agree with that. And, of course, there is the little problem of nuclear waste disposal. |
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Jeff J. Special user Connecticut 787 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-11 18:57, mastermindreader wrote: Yes, there are accidents, and yes, we need to plan for disposal, but nothing is perfect. We are an ever growing world and the demand for energy is growing with the population. Unless there are any new breakthroughs in science, we have what we have. |
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-11 18:25, Michael Baker wrote: Well like I said, we make these tradeoffs all the time. And I accept wind turbines. I am on "Team Human" after all. I also have a keen interest in nature and wildlife so whenever we have to develop an area I'm in favor of trying to reduce the impact on the environment, or even improve it, if possible. I'm not against wind energy, I'm not against oil drilling, I'm not against nuclear power, I'm not against solar power, I'm not against logging, I'm not against construction. I'm not sure how, or when, I went from pointing out that humans aren't the only creature that are stupid enough to run into a wind turbine to being Mr. Anti-renewable energy. Even my opinion that wind turbines are a blight on the landscape doesn't mean I think it shouldn't be done. I'm not one of those people, who are so common these days, that thinks my personal opinion should trump everyone, and everything, else. So yeah, if you own a giant chunk of land and someone comes to your door and want's to pay you to put a windmill on it... Go right ahead. God Bless ya. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts
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I heard Bush faked the eartquake, tsunami, and flooding to hide all the deaths directly associated with Fukishima which everyone was caused by global warming.
Speaking of bats in ranches they have huge pools made of metal to hold water for global warming causing cattle so they can drink water. These tanks would be fillednwith dead bats, because live ones won't stay on the bottom, to the tune of thousands a year killed. So what they did wa put a ring of screen material so when the critters fall in rather than swimming until it is glub glub time they can climb up, rest, have a smoke, then fly or walk off depending on the animal. For a few bucks they saved thousands of animals. |
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Jeff J. Special user Connecticut 787 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-07-11 19:45, MagicSanta wrote: No. That was Cheney. |
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Posted: Jul 11, 2012 12:05 pm 
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