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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Interesting Poll: Should women join the infantry (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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acesover
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So far there are around 50,000 votes in with 50% saying no. and 43% yes while 7% undiecided
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
balducci
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Link? What was the survey group? The "He-Man Woman Haters Club"?
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LobowolfXXX
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Is the question whether they should be permitted to if they would like to, or required to (to the same degree as male military personnel, anyway) if they would not like to?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Carrie Sue
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Women should neither be permitted nor required to join the infantry combat teams of any of our armed forces.

We should treat our women better than that.

Besides which, their presence would degrade the effectiveness of the team, and would hardly be an improvement. More likely it would be a huge detriment.

http://cmrlink.org/WomenInCombat.asp

Carrie
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LobowolfXXX
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They've done ok in Israel.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
critter
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Quote:
On 2012-07-12 19:48, LobowolfXXX wrote:
They've done ok in Israel.


:thumbsup:
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
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mastermindreader
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Yes, they have done great in Israel and in other nations as well. We no longer have a draft. It is an all volunteer force. It seems fundamental to me that anyone who is physically and mentally capable of doing the job and who has volunteered for it should be permitted to.

BTW, as a de facto matter, we already have women in combat and they have served just as honorably and bravely as the men. There is no evidence to support the notion that they would "degrade" the combat force. That same argument was used to keep women from becoming police officers and firefighters and was also the basis of denying gays to right to serve openly. Put simply, it's pure discriminatory BS.

Equal Protection Under the Law isn't just a slogan.
LobowolfXXX
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Equal Protection also suggests that whether they want to or not, they (that is, those physically and mentally capable) be assigned to combat infantry units by the same mechanism and in the same proportion as their male counterparts.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
motown
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Carrie, you couldn't be so wrong and out of date with your thinking.
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MagicSanta
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Here is where I am coming from.
1. I was on the first combat ship with women.
2. I was in Israel and know the role women actually play.

Considering that insight and watching women in traditional male roles, tradiional due to physical attributes I have the right answer. The answer is some of y"all are so blinded by liberalism you are beyond full of &*$) but are oblivious to reality.
mastermindreader
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So you don't believe in equality under the law, then. I guess that's just a liberal thing.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2012-07-12 20:47, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Equal Protection also suggests that whether they want to or not, they (that is, those physically and mentally capable) be assigned to combat infantry units by the same mechanism and in the same proportion as their male counterparts.


Yes, but that wouldn't really come into play unless we re-instituted the draft, which isn't likely.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-07-12 21:52, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-12 20:47, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Equal Protection also suggests that whether they want to or not, they (that is, those physically and mentally capable) be assigned to combat infantry units by the same mechanism and in the same proportion as their male counterparts.


Yes, but that wouldn't really come into play unless we re-instituted the draft, which isn't likely.


I'm not aware of how enlisted troops are assigned to infantry and/or combat positions, so I wasn't sure if it was a relevant consideration with an all-volunteer force.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
critter
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I have slightly mixed feelings.
On the one hand, I believe that if a woman can meet the minimum qualifications for a job then it's stupid to tell her she can't then do that job.
On the other hand, I keep thinking that I don't even like to see women get punched by a man, let alone shot. That might be an outdated mode of thinking in our PC times, but it's how I feel.

Overall, giving them a choice (again, provided they can meet the qualifications) wins out in my mind.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
MagicSanta
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Bob it is not a question of equality under the law which is why I don't think you can grasp it. That is not a question of intellect but your ability to ignore the intellectual idea and look at the reality.

The simple facts are that women and men differ in how they think, I believe woman are more logical, and physically. While always exceptions you will find that men, and while this may hurt some this includes gay men who are men, are physically stronger than women and willing to do stupid things whilw women know better. I was watching a fire and a firefighter could not break through the roof with an axe. After a few minutes another firefighter came up and quickly broke though. I was shocked until the first one took of her hood. She physically was not equal of course they could always lower standards for men like the LAPD did.

In Israel women are NOT equal in combat roles. They are armed and in unit but in an offensive women are not out front. The reasons are physical and men having an internal instict to put protection of females first. Sorry if it hurts your feelings.

I have seen women do jobs men thought they never could, they do great at management, so I am for em except I wouldn't let one land on a carrier. A few years ago at one point every female navy carrier pilot was dead due to accidents.
balducci
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http://www.npr.org/2012/02/13/146802589/......nt-lines

A few excerpts, something here for both sides on the debate:

The number of countries that have opened frontline combat positions is also larger than you might think (or than media reports sometimes suggest). A 2010 survey by the British Ministry of Defense listed Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Israel, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Romania, and Sweden as countries that allow women in "close combat roles," defined as "engaging an enemy on the ground with individual or crew served weapons, while being exposed to hostile fire and to a high probability of direct physical contact with the hostile forces personnel." Australia joined that list in September 2011 when it opened its front-line units — including one of the largest contingents in Afghanistan — to women.

Even among the countries identified in the MoD survey, some restrictions remain. Dutch women are barred from submarines or the Marines. In France, submarines and riot-control units are off limits. While the French infantry is theoretically open to women, in practice they make up only 1.7 percent of combat troops.

In Israel, which is well known as one of the few countries where women are drafted, the policy is evolving. Santorum cited Israel as a country that doesn't allow women on the frontlines because of the psychological effect it has on men. But in fact, the Israeli military does allow women in the vast majority of combat positions.

Israel began including women in combat units after 1995, when a 23-year-old South African immigrant who arrived with a pilot's license from her native country was denied entry into the Air Force and successfully sued for discrimination. Since then, the Israel Defense Forces has gradually integrated more units in compliance with a Supreme Court order.

All told, only 12 percent of military positions in Israel are off-limits to women, including combat positions in the armored corps and infantry. But women can service in light infantry, artillery, and border patrol roles. More and more positions have been opened over time, though there are alsoreports that the IDF often doesn't accept women for units for which they are eligible and evacuates women during combat situations. Women comprise only 33 percent of the IDF due to a shorter length of service and a more lenient discharge system for religiously observant Jewish women. Recent years have seen the creation of the "Caracal Batallion" a mixed-gender infantry unit that patrols near the southern border with Egypt and the first woman commanding a sniper platoon.

Even in countries with no restrictions, women's participation in combat units is relatively rare. For instance, in Canada, which has had no restrictions since 1989, 17 percent of troops are women but women make up only 3.8 percent of combat troops.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
mastermindreader
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Santa-

I realize you had a tough day and I'm really sorry for what you are going through.

But you didn't hurt my feelings at all. It's just that the statement "The answer is some of y"all are so blinded by liberalism you are beyond full of &*$) but are oblivious to reality" is really pretty offensive.

My daughter served in the Navy and was as capable as any man in her unit.

The qualities of being logical and less likely to to crazy things can actually be very beneficial in high stress situations. I stated earlier that I had no problem with women in combat roles provided they were physically and mentally capable of carrying them out. I don't think that is so unreasonable that it warrants a response that I am full of s**t and oblivious to reality.

The reality is that, as I said, women are already de facto in combat units.
Michael Baker
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Worked out pretty good in "Aliens", too.
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LobowolfXXX
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If I could have three people from Aliens watching my back, it would definitely be Ripley, Hicks, and Vasquez. 67% women.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Octopus Sun
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I helped supervised the flight line at Williams AFB in Chandler AZ when the first women fighter pilots were being trained,
along with Iranian and Iraqi pilots being trained in out fighter pilot tech. 1979.
yes, the USA trained Iranian and Iraqi pilots in our battle tech. T37's and F5's

I see no reason why they should be not allowed in Battle, equal rights, they can have at it.
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