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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Interesting Poll: Should women join the infantry (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-07-18 03:06, stoneunhinged wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-18 02:13, acesover wrote:
You may think you know because you read something but you don't.


Aces, you've gotten real wild in this thread. Calm down. Pakar is just about the nicest, friendliest guy in this forum and you're going after him as if he's mentally retarded when he clearly is not.

I quoted the above statement because it is perhaps the most ignorant thing you have ever said. If reading doesn't count as knowledge then I must be about the stupidest guy on the planet, because most of what I know comes from reading.

The rest of what I know--the stuff that comes from life experience--makes me perfectly capable of empathy. I've suffered enough loss through cancer that I have no need to have cancer myself to know how horrible it is.

Not a single thing Pakar has said is worthy of the viciousness with which you are treating him. Back off, dude.

With love, and beer:

:stout:


I can only respond to your post by saying. I was there I did not acquire my knowledge about Nam from sitting down in an armchair and reding a book then saying to myself, "Now I understand". I experienced it. I did things I never b elieved I could be capable of doing, but would probably do the same things again given the circumstances.

Adressing your reading commment. Did you learn to swim by reading a book? Did you learn to tie your shoelaces by reading a book? Experience trumps reading about it, sorry. Got to love academia. I just read how to do a hert transplant and you need one. Would yo uprefer Ido it or someone how has done it and experienced it before?

As far as your back off comment. You don't have the right to tell me or any other Viet Nam vet to back off, dude. Give it a rest and go read a book and tell me how horrible Viet Nam was. Tell me how you still smell death when the person next to you looses control of their bowels because they have just been killed and were talking to you a few seconds ago. Tell me how you experienced through reading how horrible Viet Nam was. How about if I tell you...Back off dude. Let me be blunt about it...shut your mouth because nothing but $#^t is coming out and it stinks. Until you were there and gave your all for 24/7 and then came home to be called a "baby killer" and ridiculed by those like yourself is kind of frustrating, no it goes beyond frusration. So I do not have tolerance for those people and if that includes you, then I do not have tolerance for you dude.

While I am sure you and your buddy Pakar are nice guys, don't speak of that which you do not comprehend. You are making a fool of yourself to anyone who was there and belitting their sacrifice.

I have not proof red this because I am upset it may be incoherent. I apo0logize to those who find it harsh but it is a very volatile topic with me.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Dreadnought
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No apologies needed. You shouldn't have to apologize.

Peace and Godspeed.
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

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LobowolfXXX
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The whole NVMS forum is going to dry up Pretty quickly if everyone adopts that "don't speak of that which you don't understand" standard.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Woland
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Not only this forum . . .
stoneunhinged
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Aces, I'm one of the nice guys. I offered you a beer. All I said was, in essence, to be polite. You responded with rudeness to me that I didn't deserve. I will say "back off, Dude" anytime I think someone is acting out of line. If you think you frighten me, you'd be surprised how utterly and completely fearless I am with regard to the posts of invisible people on Internet forums. Sure, you might just blow a fuse and hop on an airplane and get on a train and take a taxi to come to my office and verbally abuse me in person, but I think I could handle that, too.

So yes, I have the right to tell you and any other Vietnam vet to take a few deep breaths and be polite, because I think you are being impolite.

Remember that you and I have always got along. If we aren't getting along right now, it may be that you've become inappropriately emotional and therefore rude. I forgive you in advance.

Now have that beer:

:stout:
critter
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There is way to much testosterone in here. Maybe we need a woman's touch to get us rational again Smile
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
stoneunhinged
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Quote:
On 2012-07-18 08:41, rowdymagi5 wrote:
I didn't say you should not have respect for those who served in combat roles.


You said, and I quote, "Those who have not served [as a combat warrior] have no idea. They think they know what courage, honor and committment means but they cant really grasp it." I then claimed that firefighters might know what courage, honor, and commitment means.

One can make an argument saying, "I have this experience, and I'm telling you it won't work", and I would buy you a beer and thank you for your opinion. But to make the argument that "if you weren't in Vietnam you cannot possible assess whether the inclusion of women in the infantry would be a good idea or a bad idea" is simply not logical. Go back a few pages and you'll find that I'm one of those who thinks it's a bad idea for women to serve in the infantry because of potential weakenesses caused by sexual desires. As a man who has had sexual desires for a woman, I know that a man can have sexual desires for a woman. As a man who has had those desires at inappropriate times, I know that a man can have those desires at inappropriate times. You and Aces would like me to believe that I know nothing about sexual desires at inappropriate times because I didn't serve in Vietnam. I think that argument is fallacious.

In addition, I called out aces for being rude. Then he proceeded to act like Walter Sobchack in "The Big Lebowski", and might have even been waving a Colt 45 at his computer monitor. From that I shall not demure.

Have a beer, rowdy:

:stout:
stoneunhinged
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Quote:
On 2012-07-18 12:53, critter wrote:
There is way to much testosterone in here. Maybe we need a woman's touch to get us rational again Smile


I'm providing the woman's touch. The guys just don't appreciate me for it 'cause I don't have mammary glands.
critter
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They help.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
stoneunhinged
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On 2012-07-18 13:05, critter wrote:
They help.


They do, indeed.

Next thing that's gonna happen is this: someone's gonna say that I can't provide the woman's touch because I ain't a woman. Then I'm gonna say, "but I've read a lot of books." Then someone's gonna call me an idiot and a coward because one can't possibly know anything about what it's like to be a woman if I'm not one, and I'm gonna agree. And then someone's gonna think that they're really clever because they beat...get this...an unhinged person in an argument.

That's life at the Magic Café.
stoneunhinged
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How do you spell "fallacious" anyway?

My spelling has gotten much worse over the years I've lived in Germany, and I cannot figure out how to turn the spellcheck in Firefox back on. In fact, I can't even figure out how it got turned off in the first place. Feel free to PM me with help.
critter
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I'm starting to think the entire planet is going violently insane. Or maybe it's just election season.

PS, you spelled it right.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
stoneunhinged
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Quote:
On 2012-07-18 13:14, critter wrote:
I'm starting to think the entire planet is going violently insane. Or maybe it's just election season.


Like the Klingon "pon far" (or however you spell it) gone wild?
acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-07-18 12:46, stoneunhinged wrote:
Aces, I'm one of the nice guys. I offered you a beer. All I said was, in essence, to be polite. You responded with rudeness to me that I didn't deserve. I will say "back off, Dude" anytime I think someone is acting out of line. If you think you frighten me, you'd be surprised how utterly and completely fearless I am with regard to the posts of invisible people on Internet forums. Sure, you might just blow a fuse and hop on an airplane and get on a train and take a taxi to come to my office and verbally abuse me in person, but I think I could handle that, too.

So yes, I have the right to tell you and any other Vietnam vet to take a few deep breaths and be polite, because I think you are being impolite.

Remember that you and I have always got along. If we aren't getting along right now, it may be that you've become inappropriately emotional and therefore rude. I forgive you in advance.

Now have that beer:

:stout:


Frighten you? What are you on the play ground? I am not abouta frightening anyone. Y But before we go any further you are the one who got riled inthis discussion as a matter of fact you were not evenpart of it but decided to put in your two cents because you believe I upset your friend. You are the one who first used the phrase "back off dude" not me. Don't change the playing field.

Take a plane etc . I do not have that kind of time. The only time I ever offered to do that was to an iondividual from Canada that I apologized to and said I would take him and a friend to dinner at the restaurant of his choice. For some reason he declined and it was a genuine offer as him residing in Canada made it only a few hours away and I though it would be a nice diversion and at the same time not be that far from home if needed. However I digress.

However I do have to ask why you feel you have the right to tell me or any other Viet Nam vet to take a few deep breath...what gives you that right? While you may have the right legally it is morally and ethically wrong as you havae no idea what we went through yet you claim to know. You feel I was being impolite? Do you feel that the people who called us baby killers and other names and ridiculed us for serving out country while they sat home were being polite and wiwsh to join them?

Your statement about blowiing a fuse makes me laugh. Do you really think someone as yourself can make me blow a fuse? You can very much upset me, but blow a fuse...I think not. You are giving yourself way to much credit.

Yes we have gotten along and I believe will continue to get along in the future. But I am sensitive about what happened over there. Very sensitive and really do not want to hear from someone who did not experience what we did. If what you said was coming from a fellow VN vet I would be much more attuned to be tolerant and listen to what he had to say for I am sure that person would have a valid reason. I am not sure what your reason is for giving me a hard time because I came down on your bud. You were not even involved.

You said I responded with rudness that you did not deserve. Yes you did. You rudely got involved in something that did not concern you and are now trying to defend your position which is indefensible. You just butted in and you say I am the one being rude..duh. What am I missing here?

I am sure your bud can speak for himself he is a big boy. While I am sure he is grateful for you sticking your nose where it does not belong he is probably embarassed. He is a highly respected member of this forum and does not need you to speak for him.

I am also upset because I am not a big beer drinker...now if you offered me a manhattan. Smile
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
critter
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Oh, I love Klingons.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Woland
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Make that a perfect manhattan . . .
stoneunhinged
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Quote:
On 2012-07-18 13:46, acesover wrote:
...now if you offered me a manhattan. Smile


Then have a manhattan. I would have offered you one, but there ain't no smiley for it.

Pakar is not "my" friend. He's "our" friend.

Thanks for serving our country. Thanks for going to Vietnam. Thanks for enduring things that I cannot even imagine.

But, you know, be nice in this bar. It ain't my bar, of course. But I'm the heaviest drinker here, so I sorta pay the bill. So be nice, please. It's a request, not a demand.

If you go back and re-read this thread, you'd find out that if you cooled down you'd see that I've not said a single thing geared to upset you, nor have I even disputed your position. That's what I meant by "take a deep breath". That means: wait and figure out who your enemies are. Here, in the Internet world, I am NOT YOUR ENEMY, but your friend. And for some weird reason you just shat all over me like I'm some piece of scum. I didn't deserve that. All I asked was that you be polite to our friend Pakar.
acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-07-18 12:59, stoneunhinged wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-18 08:41, rowdymagi5 wrote:
I didn't say you should not have respect for those who served in combat roles.


You said, and I quote, "Those who have not served [as a combat warrior] have no idea. They think they know what courage, honor and committment means but they cant really grasp it." I then claimed that firefighters might know what courage, honor, and commitment means.

One can make an argument saying, "I have this experience, and I'm telling you it won't work", and I would buy you a beer and thank you for your opinion. But to make the argument that "if you weren't in Vietnam you cannot possible assess whether the inclusion of women in the infantry would be a good idea or a bad idea" is simply not logical. Go back a few pages and you'll find that I'm one of those who thinks it's a bad idea for women to serve in the infantry because of potential weakenesses caused by sexual desires. As a man who has had sexual desires for a woman, I know that a man can have sexual desires for a woman. As a man who has had those desires at inappropriate times, I know that a man can have those desires at inappropriate times. You and Aces would like me to believe that I know nothing about sexual desires at inappropriate times because I didn't serve in Vietnam. I think that argument is fallacious.

In addition, I called out aces for being rude. Then he proceeded to act like Walter Sobchack in "The Big Lebowski", and might have even been waving a Colt 45 at his computer monitor. From that I shall not demure.

Have a beer, rowdy:

:stout:


OMG. I just read this post. Sexual Desires has nothing to do with combat competance. You are so far off base it is to the point of being silly. I am talking about physcial makeup, strengh, mental attituce, instinct, ability to withstand intolerable conditions and on and on. Got to be honest with you here. I cannot imagine being distracted sexually by any woman when someone is trying to kill me whether it is a VC or her husband. Maybe it is just me but I think it ruins the moment.

It is definitely not logicalfor women to be in a combat situation and being inViet Nam has nothingtodo with that logic. It is common sense. you use the best tools for the job and a woman is not the correct tool inthisinstance. How many times do you havea to be told they donot have the strenght or stamina of a man. Again I use the very valid arguement of women insports. The cannot compete with men. They are not physcialy capable and the same goes for combat. If they were you would see them in pro football and basseball if they could compete. If they were capable you would have Tennis and golf matches for women and men where they would compete aganist one another. You don't because they can't. Not rocket science just common sense.

When you can put together a female football team that can compete aganist the NFL or even college level players I will consider your point of view. Until then it is proof enough that one does not exist and I am quite sure never will. Not sexist just fact.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
critter
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Who here likes cigars?
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
stoneunhinged
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OK, aces, we just have to disagree on this one. I'm sorry you think I'm stupid. But, you know, maybe I am.
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