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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Interesting Poll: Should women join the infantry (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Marlin1894
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On 2012-07-20 11:45, mastermindreader wrote:
I just think that infantry/non infantry is an artificial distinction given the realities of urban warfare where most, if not all personnel, can be in combat situations at any given or unexpected moment.


Oy. Fine. It's an artifical distinction. Words mean nothing. The fact that it is broken out as a seperate and distinct occupation within the armed forces means nothing. The fact that they have a distinct mission and role within the service means nothing. That they train for a specific mission seperately from the other occupations within the service means nothing. Because you "just" think so. Fine, fine. You win. It's all the same. My bad.
mastermindreader
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I think you just want to argue for arguments sake. I said I understood your position. Words do matter.

So does the reality of the day to day situation in urban warfare environments.

Sorry, but I'm weaning myself from pointless arguments with those who just want to pick a fight. It's a waste of time.
rowdymagi5
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When you are the first to go in and face the enemy, call it what you want, I call it front lines. And most of you don't have any idea what your talking about because you get your information from the liberal media that spins it the way they want to spin it.
rowdymagi5
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I will point out that there are darn few who are in the role of "front line" (My definition) and they sure don't want any women around them due to the nature of their work. That is just a fact, you can ask them if you don't think that is true, they will tell ya.
Tony Iacoviello
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I cannot speak of today's armed forces, but while serving in the USAF, I was recruited for an Army WO position. It was made clear to me, regardless of your MOS, you are a soldier first.
Marlin1894
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Quote:
On 2012-07-20 12:09, mastermindreader wrote:
I think you just want to argue for arguments sake. I said I understood your position. Words do matter.

Sorry, but I'm weaning myself from pointless arguments with those who just want to pick a fight. It's a waste of time.


Unreal. Over the course of two or three posts I described as clearly I could a distinction that not everyone is aware of. I did it completely non-confrontationally, and only made direct references to you because it was your comments that I was responding to, and using to help illustrate the point. In no way was I trying to argue. And for that you repeatedly dismiss everything I said. Tell me the distinctions I drew don't matter anymore in this day and age. And that even though what I had said was true and correct it didn't really matter because you thought otherwise. And when I finally give up in exasperation, I am accused of trying to start an argument. It's unbelieveable.
stoneunhinged
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Bob, Marlin is one of the good guys.

I'd have PM'd you to tell you that, but you are not peeimable.

He's not arguing for argument's sake.
Marlin1894
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Thanks Stone, I appreciate it. It doesn't matter. I should know better by now. I don't know why I was even surprised.
mastermindreader
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Marlin-

If I misunderstood you I apologize. But you post that I responded to seemed pretty dismissive of my position and I thought it was a bit condescending as well.

Let's smoke a peace pipe here as I think maybe we are both overreacting.

:eek:
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2012-07-20 12:13, rowdymagi5 wrote:
When you are the first to go in and face the enemy, call it what you want, I call it front lines. And most of you don't have any idea what your talking about because you get your information from the liberal media that spins it the way they want to spin it.


Whatever.
acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-07-20 10:42, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-20 08:48, Marlin1894 wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-07-19 21:36, mastermindreader wrote:

I think that something that is being overlooked here is the obvious fact that different combat jobs require different physical skills and characteristics.

In combat, the skills of a long range sniper, for example, are significantly different than those of a tank driver. Combat roles, like almost everything else in today's society, have become increasingly specialized. Hand- to-hand combat requires different skills than those needed to disarm IED's. Some roles would seem to favor men and others would seem to favor women or are gender neutral in regards to the physical skills required to carry them out.

The statement that men are better suited than women for all combat roles - particularly in today's military - completely ignores the different skill sets required in different combat related specialties.



Yes, but to be fair the original question specified "infantry". Not "combat roles". So the discussion should probably stay near to that specific combat role. We discussed the fact that women serve in combat roles already. But they don't serve in the infantry.

Infantry is it's own occupational field. Tankers aren't infantry. Explosive ordinace specialists aren't infantry. Field artillery isn't infantry. Motor transpost isn't infantry etc.


You're right. But the original poster quickly expanded his argument into his belief that women are generally inferior to men in sports and other fields as well. Strictly speaking many, if not most, combat roles in the Middle East aren't technically infantry related. War isn't really fought on that model any more and even the commanders in the field refer to combat positions rather that whether they are specifically infantry or not. (Navy Seals, for example, are hardly "infantry" but I doubt that anyone would dispute that they are a combat unit as are many others.)


Good thoughts,

Bob


You know you get upset when someone calls you ricidulous but after reding this post of yours you are ricidulous. Read your first 5 or 6 posts on this topic. I believe I posted once which was the original post and did not mention a thing about who should serve or in what capacity they shuld serve. While you poste 5 or 6 times starting an arguement. There was no mentioin of inferiorty until you brought it up about fire fighters etc.

I only posted about an artcle and a poll being taken. And you went legally balastic about equal rights. So don't tell people here that the original poster said this or that. You started an arguement...wow what a surprise there. I believe you had 5 posts before I even postee a second time and I still did not mention anything about who could or should do what. So don't make up things. You instiated this not me. Sometime you are wrong on mighty one and some times you are just full of it...this time...well take your choice but beiing right is not one of the choices.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
mastermindreader
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I have no idea what your problem is. It is clear that most of what has been posted is beyond your comprehension or that you are just being intentionally obtuse.

Just keep making stuff up if you like. I plan to just ignore any of your ridiculous rants.

Have fun.
tommy
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I do not think women and children should be fighting.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
landmark
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Yes, but what about besides in this thread.
MagicSanta
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This reminds me of something. It is known that I diidnt care if gays join the service, we had em and no problem though I think most were smart enough not to tell everyone.

I seem to have missed the articles on the tens of thousands of frustrated gay folks marching witg an American flag in one hand and a rainbow in the other as they signed up. Also missed where thousands of servicemen and women proudly marched out of the closet, some with medals of honor around their necks. Can y"all put up links so I can swell with pride? Thank you.
mastermindreader
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You mean people like Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach?

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/201......aviator/

Do a Google search on "gay war heroes." You may be surprised.
MagicSanta
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Bob, I knew a gay SEAL, I am asking about the thousands of gays I heard waiting to join, did the join or still waiting until after pride week? Note I don't give out the term hero easili.
critter
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My Dad was a hippie SEAL. That makes less sense than a gay one...
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
MagicSanta
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This gay seal looked like a young Tom Selleck and was a warrior. He was what one would call effeminent but at 6'4 and trained too kill no one bothered him and he earned respect from his team. I knew hippy squids. Most were drafted and liked the job and benefits so they made careers out of it. Heck, the only real gung ho shoot em all military types I ever met were never in the military. Kinda like the craziest religious typed are rarely running a church.
mastermindreader
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Maybe a bit off topic because it involves a straight male who joined the Army, the following is nonetheless illustrative of how hard it is to determine who is fit for combat duty based solely on physical characteristics:

The five foot five, one hundred and ten pound young man tried several times to enlist, but was declined by both the Marines and Army paratroopers as too short and underweight. The Navy also turned him down for being underweight. The Army finally accepted him and he was sent to Texas for basic training. During a session of close order drill, he passed out. His company commander tried to have him transferred to a cook and bakers' school but the young man insisted on becoming a combat soldier...

He went on to become the most decorated American soldier of WWII and received the Medal of Honor. His name was Audie Murphy.

You can never tell who the heroes will be.

Good thoughts,

Bob
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