The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Do You Miss the Space Program? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
TonyB2009
View Profile
Inner circle
5006 Posts

Profile of TonyB2009
Quote:
On 2012-07-13 18:56, mastermindreader wrote:
Appreciate and agree with your sentiments Tony. But we DID have computers at NASA. Nothing like today, of course, but computers nonetheless. To a large extent it was the demands of the space program that sped the development of the computers we have today.

I know we had computers back then, but not as we know them today. I remember my neighbour was an electrical engineer and when I was about twelve he showed me a computer for the first time. It could do basic addition and subtraction, and took hours to programme for that. What I really meant was that we sent a man to the moon without vast technological resources. It was brilliant people that did it. The spin-off was enormous - huge advances in technology resulted. But that was not the point. The point was the sheer joy of exploration. We did it because that is what humans as a species do.

The space race was one of the last great periods in human history. In another decade it is possible that there will be no one alive on our planet who stepped onto another world. What a sad prospect.
Al Angello
View Profile
Eternal Order
Collegeville, Pa. USA
11047 Posts

Profile of Al Angello
Bob
In 1960 when president Kennedy launched the space program we were in considerably less debt, and we had a foe to defeat. Now the only foe we have is ourselves.

Lobo
If president Obama was that frivolous with our money he would not get my vote.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5017 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On 2012-07-13 17:47, R.S. wrote:
When I was in 3rd/4th/5th grade (in the sixties) I remember them wheeling a TV into our classroom to watch some of the Apollo launches. It was quite exciting! Also, we got a high from the smell of our dittoed schoolwork papers.


Ron

We must have been born in the same baby ward, well actually for me it was the Mercury program.

Anyway, no more manned flight, because it's not militarily necessary, which is what the space program has become. In the sixties, the flights were as much for the cold war, feel-good reasons as the strictly military ones. They were exciting days.

Mmmm ditto paper. Teacher, can I have another copy of the test?
rockwall
View Profile
Special user
763 Posts

Profile of rockwall
Quote:
On 2012-07-13 20:31, Al Angello wrote:
...

Lobo
If president Obama was that frivolous with our money he would not get my vote.


OK. Funniest quote of the day. President Obama is a LOT more frivolous with our money that that!
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Another tired old meme from the right. Here's what the Wall Street Journal (which is hardly left wing) had to say about the so-called Obama spending binge. But I'm sure those who are opposed to him no matter what he does aren't really concerned with facts:

Quote:
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Of all the falsehoods told about President Barack Obama, the biggest whopper is the one about his reckless spending spree.

As would-be president Mitt Romney tells it: “I will lead us out of this debt and spending inferno.”

Almost everyone believes that Obama has presided over a massive increase in federal spending, an “inferno” of spending that threatens our jobs, our businesses and our children’s future. Even Democrats seem to think it’s true.

But it didn’t happen. Although there was a big stimulus bill under Obama, federal spending is rising at the slowest pace since Dwight Eisenhower brought the Korean War to an end in the 1950s.

Even hapless Herbert Hoover managed to increase spending more than Obama has.

Here are the facts, according to the official government statistics:

• In the 2009 fiscal year — the last of George W. Bush’s presidency — federal spending rose by 17.9% from $2.98 trillion to $3.52 trillion. Check the official numbers at the Office of Management and Budget.

• In fiscal 2010 — the first budget under Obama — spending fell 1.8% to $3.46 trillion.

• In fiscal 2011, spending rose 4.3% to $3.60 trillion.

• In fiscal 2012, spending is set to rise 0.7% to $3.63 trillion, according to the Congressional Budget Office’s estimate of the budget that was agreed to last August.

• Finally in fiscal 2013 — the final budget of Obama’s term — spending is scheduled to fall 1.3% to $3.58 trillion. Read the CBO’s latest budget outlook.

Over Obama’s four budget years, federal spending is on track to rise from $3.52 trillion to $3.58 trillion, an annualized increase of just 0.4%.

There has been no huge increase in spending under the current president, despite what you hear.


http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-05-......31802270
Marlin1894
View Profile
Special user
565 Posts

Profile of Marlin1894
There is no strife, no prejudice, no national conflict in outer space as yet. Its hazards are hostile to us all. Its conquest deserves the best of all mankind, and its opportunity for peaceful cooperation many never come again. But why, some say, the moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas?

We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g25G1M4EXrQ
ClintonMagus
View Profile
Inner circle
Southwestern Southeast
3999 Posts

Profile of ClintonMagus
Quote:
On 2012-07-13 22:02, mastermindreader wrote:
Another tired old meme from the right. Here's what the Wall Street Journal (which is hardly left wing) had to say about the so-called Obama spending binge. But I'm sure those who are opposed to him no matter what he does aren't really concerned with facts:

Quote:
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Of all the falsehoods told about President Barack Obama, the biggest whopper is the one about his reckless spending spree.

As would-be president Mitt Romney tells it: “I will lead us out of this debt and spending inferno.”

Almost everyone believes that Obama has presided over a massive increase in federal spending, an “inferno” of spending that threatens our jobs, our businesses and our children’s future. Even Democrats seem to think it’s true.

But it didn’t happen. Although there was a big stimulus bill under Obama, federal spending is rising at the slowest pace since Dwight Eisenhower brought the Korean War to an end in the 1950s.

Even hapless Herbert Hoover managed to increase spending more than Obama has.

Here are the facts, according to the official government statistics:

• In the 2009 fiscal year — the last of George W. Bush’s presidency — federal spending rose by 17.9% from $2.98 trillion to $3.52 trillion. Check the official numbers at the Office of Management and Budget.

• In fiscal 2010 — the first budget under Obama — spending fell 1.8% to $3.46 trillion.

• In fiscal 2011, spending rose 4.3% to $3.60 trillion.

• In fiscal 2012, spending is set to rise 0.7% to $3.63 trillion, according to the Congressional Budget Office’s estimate of the budget that was agreed to last August.

• Finally in fiscal 2013 — the final budget of Obama’s term — spending is scheduled to fall 1.3% to $3.58 trillion. Read the CBO’s latest budget outlook.

Over Obama’s four budget years, federal spending is on track to rise from $3.52 trillion to $3.58 trillion, an annualized increase of just 0.4%.

There has been no huge increase in spending under the current president, despite what you hear.


http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-05-......31802270


...and there goes the thread...
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
Carrie Sue
View Profile
Veteran user
Auburn, MI
332 Posts

Profile of Carrie Sue
Oh, yeah?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara......history/

Quote:
As Art Laffer and Steve Moore showed in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday, President Bush began a spending spree in his term that erased most of the gains in reduced government spending as a percent of GDP achieved by the Republican Congress in the 1990s led by former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, in conjunction with President Clinton. But for fiscal year 2009, President Bush in February, 2008 proposed a budget with just a 3% spending increase over the prior year. Fiscal year 2009 ran from October 1, 2008 until September 30, 2009. President Obama’s term began on January 20, 2009.

Recall, however, that in 2008 Congress was controlled by Democrat majorities, with Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House, and the restless Senator Obama already running for President, just four years removed from his glorious career as a state Senator in the Illinois legislature. As Hans Bader reported on May 26 for the Washington Examiner, the budget approved and implemented by Pelosi, Obama and the rest of the Congressional Democrat majorities provided for a 17.9 percent increase in spending for fiscal 2009!

Actually, President Obama and the Democrats were even more deeply involved in the fiscal 2009 spending explosion than that. As Bader also reports, “The Democrat Congress [in 2008], confident Obama was going to win in 2008, passed only three of fiscal 2009’s 12 appropriations bills (Defense, Military Construction and Veterans Affairs, and Homeland Security). The Democrat Congress passed the rest of them [in 2009], and [President] Obama signed them.” So Obama played a very direct role in the runaway fiscal 2009 spending explosion.


and ...

Quote:
In sharp contrast to Reagan, Obama’s first major legislative initiative was the so-called stimulus, which increased future federal spending by nearly a trillion dollars, the most expensive legislation in history up till that point. We know now, as thinking people knew at the time, that this record shattering spending bill only stimulated government spending, deficits and debt. Contrary to official Democrat Keynesian witchcraft, you don’t promote economic recovery, growth and prosperity by borrowing a trillion dollars out of the economy to spend a trillion dollars back into it.

But this was just a warm up for Obama’s Swedish socialism. Obama worked with Pelosi’s Democratic Congress to pass an additional, $410 billion, supplemental spending bill for fiscal year 2009, which was too much even for big spending President Bush, who had specifically rejected it in 2008. Next in 2009 came a $40 billion expansion in the SCHIP entitlement program, as if we didn’t already have way more than too much entitlement spending.

But those were just the preliminaries for the biggest single spending bill in world history, Obamacare, enacted in March, 2010. That legislation is not yet even counted in Obama’s spending record so far because it mostly does not go into effect until 2014. But it is now scored by CBO as increasing federal spending by $1.6 trillion in the first 10 years alone, with trillions more to come in future years.

After just one year of the Obama spending binge, federal spending had already rocketed to 25.2% of GDP, the highest in American history except for World War II. That compares to 20.8% in 2008, and an average of 19.6% during Bush’s two terms. The average during President Clinton’s two terms was 19.8%, and during the 60-plus years from World War II until 2008 — 19.7%. Obama’s own fiscal 2013 budget released in February projects the average during the entire 4 years of the Obama Administration to come in at 24.4% in just a few months. That budget shows federal spending increasing from $2.983 trillion in 2008 to an all time record $3.796 trillion in 2012, an increase of 27.3%.

Moreover, before Obama there had never been a deficit anywhere near $1 trillion. The highest previously was $458 billion, or less than half a trillion, in 2008. The federal deficit for the last budget adopted by a Republican controlled Congress was $161 billion for fiscal year 2007. But the budget deficits for Obama’s four years were reported in Obama’s own 2013 budget as $1.413 trillion for 2009, $1.293 trillion for 2010, $1.3 trillion for 2011, and $1.327 trillion for 2012, four years in a row of deficits of $1.3 trillion or more, the highest in world history....

[U]nder the budget policies supported by President Obama and Congressional Democrats, federal spending soars to 30% of GDP by 2027, 40% by 2040, 50% by 2060, and 80% by 2080. Obama’s 2013 budget proposes to spend $47 trillion over the next 10 years, the most in world history by far, increasing federal spending by $1.5 trillion above the current CBO baseline.


That should be enough to put some truth back in the thread -- before it disappears.

Carrie
www.proximityillusions.com

ASLAN IS ON THE MOVE!
Jeff J.
View Profile
Special user
Connecticut
787 Posts

Profile of Jeff J.
This thread went downhill pretty quick, and I'm pretty sure I wasn't the part of the reason this time.
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1192 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Quote:
On 2012-07-13 22:02, mastermindreader wrote:
• Finally in fiscal 2013 — the final budget of Obama’s term — spending is scheduled to fall 1.3% to $3.58 trillion. Read the CBO’s latest budget outlook.


No comment regarding figures from the past, but LOL at future projections, particularly by the CBO. These are the guys who revised the ACA estimate upward by more than 80% three years into a 10-year estimate. Other recent amusing projections include the TARP 2 unemployment number, which missed by 25% about a year into the deal.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1192 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Quote:
On 2012-07-13 20:31, Al Angello wrote:
Lobo
If president Obama was that frivolous with our money he would not get my vote.


Just to clarify, are you saying that if on the campaign trail, Obama says we need to return to leading the world in space exploration, and if reelected, he'll commit additional, say, tens of billions to NASA, you'll no longer support him?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Jeff J.
View Profile
Special user
Connecticut
787 Posts

Profile of Jeff J.
A lot of election promises are made for the purpose of getting elected. You have to look at their history to see which promises they will actually keep.
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Actually, this thread went off topic when Rockwall brought up the myth of Obama's "frivolous spending." I couldn't let that go by without posting the link to The Wall Street Journal's article that completely debunks it.

Carrie- did you catch that? The article I linked to was from the same source that you cited. So I take it that Wall Street Journal articles are only valid if they support your view?

Please provide evidence that the numbers cited in that article are false or that they don't support the fact that spending increases under Obama are significantly LESS than under previous administrations.

Then we can talk about truth returning to this thread.
rockwall
View Profile
Special user
763 Posts

Profile of rockwall
I could easily provide evidence to show that the numbers cited are false but to paraphrase my favorite mind reader, But I'm sure those who support him no matter what he does they aren't really concerned with facts:
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
So you can't find anything to prove the numbers false. I should have known that, mind reader that I am. Smile
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1192 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
I'll go mentalist with a sealed open envelope prediction on the 2013 projection... "LOL"
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Well we really won't know the answer on that until 2013. But I doubt we'll see the "facts" rockwall claims he can produce showing the other Wall Street Journal numbers to be false.
Ray Chelt
View Profile
Inner circle
Changing the world with my
1303 Posts

Profile of Ray Chelt
Getting back to the point of the thread surely people realise that as a race at the moment we are heading down an massive cul de sac unless we find a way to expand.

At the very least mining asteroids would be a start.

Its the incredible short sightedness that already makes me worry what my grandkids will inherit.
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5017 Posts

Profile of landmark
I have great affection for the adventure and spirit of the early space program. Many scientific advances, and the spirit of curiosity and the advancement of the humans into pushing the boundaries of our knowledge and learning are admirable goals. I support that.

However...
if the reason for space exploration is so that we can set up moon colonies to escape the problems we left behind...well running from problems rarely works if the problems have been of our own making in the first place. Let's learn to live with each other here, then perhaps we can talk about living in places with less oxygen and more rocks.

And, unfortunately, I doubt that the country's rulers at this point could do anything on a bigger scale with the space program without perverting it into some further program of killing in the name of self-defense.

I feel the same way I do about this as I do about entering or starting wars for "humanitarian" reasons. Despite excellent intentions on the part of some, the record shows the interventions always have selfish reasons on the part of the ruling class. The interventions end up hurting the ones they are supposed to help, while consolidating the power of the helpers.

Not immediately relevant but just wondering if anybody remembers the book The Mouse on the Moon?
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On 2012-07-13 11:37, ClintonMagus wrote:
I am pretty stingy when it comes to throwing away money (except on myself, of course), but I always thought the manned space program was cool enough to be worth whatever funding was put into it. I also think we lost a large part of our identity as a nation when it was canned.

What think ye?


Staying on topic. I agree with what the original poster said when he posted and I quote: "I always thought the manned space program was cool enough to be worth whatever funding was put into it. I also think we lost a large part of our identity as a nation when it was canned."

They were magaical times when we were exploring space. The wonder of it all. Oh well...now I digress.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Do You Miss the Space Program? (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.47 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL