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bole New user Watching you since 88 Posts |
Just one more thing to point out: I doubt that this approach will work that well in our particular craft, though it would make sense to try to figure out those peoples motivation. I never received any of those trading offers, but I assume that a large portion of these creatures is just collecting and hoarding information without understanding or appreciating most of it. In such a case, the harm is more likely done by them spreading the works of others to a) people who would usually pay for it and b) laymen who stumble upon such offerings and learning things that are not for them to learn.
My dearest hope is, that a) will be honest magicians, that will refuse such offers. I think in a small community such as ours, real performers who would be able to get something out of a colleagues work, will always gladly pay for it. This leaves us with b) laymen. Can we do something about it? That's a tough question. Interestingly and ironically, the high price tag that some creators put on their works to get them out of the hands of the "merely" curious seems to make such works even more desirable to those collectors. |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
I would hope that people feel more comfortable to "out" those that approach them, and send proof off to the person who's material is being pirated...i'm fully aware that this kind of stuff will never stop...though always hope it will...
the only thing that could also potentially happen is that people like bob, jerome, voodini and the rest just think "well, sod this for a game of soldiers..." and then shut up shop completely, and knowledge would only be passed down from person to person...i love that idea in some respects, but don't in others... that wouldn't kill off good ideas, as it would mean we would all work with what we already have, which is far more than enough realistically...but then you'd miss out on unique brains that have experienced far more than we have, and that's the real shame... "oh, you actually spend time with bob cassidy?" "yeah...in pubs, in private residences, stages..." "what is it like? what does he tell you?" *smiles and taps nose twice*
I've asked to be banned
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Cristobal Loyal user Malaga (Spain) 288 Posts |
Bole's example is a good one.
I really think that authors should not worry about piracy but about customers. You are not going to sell more if there would be less piracy, you'll sell more if you care about the people who do buy your work. And I know by experience that all of you care about your customers, so in general you don't need to worry It's true that some people will obtain your work without your permission (you can stop it anyway), but perhaps some of them will pay for your work in the future. Even it's possible that some of this people learn something. Not to sell because some people share illegally does not lead anywhere, only if you want to go back two centuries ago. My only fear would be that the knowledge was accessible by laymen. But I never had met a spectator that searched for a mentalist secret. Even my closest friend still could not find in Internet how the hell I bend forks. |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-18 11:17, Cristobal wrote: that's cos you do it via the power of the human mind, right?
I've asked to be banned
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Cristobal Loyal user Malaga (Spain) 288 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-18 11:27, IAIN wrote: Exactly! He can't believe it yet! |
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Jerome Finley V.I.P. SLC 3419 Posts |
I'm happy to see this thread becoming such an insightful discussion into the effects of piracy relative to our individual and collective arts and crafts, potential options we have as creators, possible (albeit sideways) motivations of theft in any form and for all of the diverse opinions and thoughtful responses given here. Once again I'd like to personally thank everyone who felt compelled to chime in and to Destiny for stepping up and going "public" with the information at hand. I appreciate all of you, truly.
The way I see it, this isn't so much an issue of "my work" being stolen, copied, shared, sold and mishandled (there are many dozens and even several HUNDREDS of others who work just as hard as I do and many whom I consider close personal friends that are suffering the same consequences!) as it is a dynamic reflection upon the state of affairs in magic, mentalism, hypnosis and psychic entertainment...and the world...in general. I've been fighting piracy for years now, both publically and privately, and I've yet to find a viable solution to these rising threats and thefts against our own that makes sense or remains workable and effective in the long term. An unfortunate truth is that our craft's piracy, theft and illegal trading issue is not going away and never will - instead, the problem is obviously growing. Somewhere at sometime, SOMEONE is going to make an ill decision and take what's not his or hers, trade it, share it freely, sell it, copy and/or distribute it. One look around the world today shows me very clearly this will continue forever and that it always has with humanity in some form or another. On a grand scale, mentalism is the least of my worries, however, it pains me and hurts me deeply and personally when the life-works and efforts of not just myself, but that of my friends, family, peers and comrades is so readily, thoroughly and regularly abused. I don't have all the answers...I don't even have all the questions, but I appreciate dialogues and conversations such as this one as they usually shed a bit more light on the issue and groups or individuals adding to the problem at hand. Over the years I've tried so many different methods of material protection it's ridiculous! From printing on dark colored papers, selling only to people I know personally and can trust, conducting background checks and sending out questionaires, coding ebooks with personal information, using buyers CC #'s as passwords to protect files, limiting the number of manuscripts made available, incorporating legally binding contracts and NDA's, working with ebooks only, working with physical prints and manuscripts only and several other makeshift solutions that prove only temporary at best. One thing is certain - price doesn't matter, nor does limited quantity or quality! My highest priced manuscripts and most pristine offerings are repeatedley seen and downloaded alongside $10.00 crap ebooks just as often. Only selling to previous buyers and active workers doesn't cut it either...it still gets out eventually, heartbreaking as that is. Again, I don't know what to do beyond the obvious...call my attorneys, make contact with the websites, oust the thieves and pirates and pick up the pieces. I've gone back and forth with "to release/not release" conflicts multiple times. While its absolutely true that to STOP IT COMPLETELY an individual creator being stolen from only needs to cease sharing, writing, teaching and consulting completely, in my opinion this does nothing to further the art or give back to the community. It quickly ends the productivity of a dynamic group of people, artists and performers in one fell swoop which is more depressing and hazardous than piracy in the first place, in my experience. There are so many underlying problems with regards to piracy and many times I feel it boils down to a hoarding mentality, fear of "not having ALL the information" to be successful, a gross sense of entitlement in some people, a lack of perspective regarding how these actions affect both the creator and greater art form in the long term, disdain over price-points, a lack of finances to purchase, EGO, accolades and praise given for sharing with others who do the same, to ride a cheap and momentary thrill, depression and boredom, curiosity, searching for the "holy grail", growing technology and advances in communication and generally just not giving a F-U-C-K about one's self or other people............and again, these are only my opinions and I've thought long and hard about a person's potential motivations often. Most recently the solution I've come to is CONTINUE FIGHTING, educating people, speaking out and doing what I can to protect my own work and the work of my peers as much and as often as possible. Just because this will continue doesn't mean we (or "I") should just lie down and submit to the beating - there's not a snowball's chance in hell that's going to happen! I'll happily continue sharing my life work and offerings, adding value to the community and lives of working performers, pushing the art forward and continuing to evolve and adapt with changing times and changing people despite the ethics and moral values and fibers of some. The thieves are a minority and, I believe, the good will prevail. Grateful, Jerome Finley
"Join my update list here!" http://eepurl.com/uE3Jf
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
...or its kimbo slice time!
I've asked to be banned
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Jerome Finley V.I.P. SLC 3419 Posts |
Yeah, and that too!
;)
"Join my update list here!" http://eepurl.com/uE3Jf
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mota Inner circle 1658 Posts |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
I've asked to be banned
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Be Careful New user 2 Posts |
As I said via PM already.
1. I'm not Tushur. If you have written to him you know he has a weird way of writing / is bad at English. Hopefully its obvious to anyone that I write differntly. 2. One reason for writing under this name is to avoid any more trouble with Tushur but still warning people. 3. The other reason is because I have been semi-accused in the past of being a pirate because I notified a creator of their work being offered to me. I don't care for the inevitable accusations. My fear is now confirmed by how Tony is being accused. 4. I'm guessing I'm not the only one Tushur told his methods to. Maybe others people can confirm. Anyway, I'm only trying to warn people to be careful, so you can take that advice or ignore it. Or if you have the skills, take the precautions you need to. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Café rules specifically forbid the use of the PM system to facilitate the trading of illegal materials. Because such an activity actually constitutes criminal solicitation, I recommend that the staff be advised of all PMs of this nature so that they may ban the offenders and provide their ISP numbers and other identifying information to aggrieved authors, internet service providers and appropriate authorities.
Using the Café to facilitate the commission of a crime is something I'm certain they don't look kindly upon. It's time serious action is taken against these criminals. |
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Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts |
Mine was a cold-call: Email. Makes me curious as to how he got my address.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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Stefmagic Special user 529 Posts |
Quote: Maybe your account profil?
On 2012-07-18 20:24, Tom Jorgenson wrote: |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
Mine was an email approach too, but it would be easy to lift my email from my profile.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts |
Durrr...Hooda thunk?
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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bole New user Watching you since 88 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-18 08:30, IAIN wrote: IAIN, I totally agree. That's the worst nightmare. Especially in a a small community as ours, progress comes from exchange. The growing number of amateurs and "merely interested" gave a raise to one trick dvds and wonders without excitement, but you will never know where the stars of tommorrow come from. I remember that someone I really care for stopped offering due to the fact that his work showed up on the inet. Though I respected and understood his motivation, I felt sad about it. Luckily, I knew him long enough, so he continued to share some insight with me. Lucky me? Well, though I humbly strive to make whatever I learn my own, someone less fortunate than me may have put it to new levels. You never know. Let's applaud those who continue to share despite all obstacles and remember them for doing it... |
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Doughlas Regular user Northern California 173 Posts |
I got the same email from the guy calling himself Richard Mark last week. Did a IP trace on the email that came in and it tracks back to someone in San Mateo, CA.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-18 21:36, Doughlas wrote: Please note that this is not THE Richard Mark. (Well known creator, PEA member and personal friend of mine) If this is not the individual's real name he would be guilty of fraudulent impersonation as well. Many people have received these emails. It appears that he/they are sending them out in bulk to email addresses harvested from profiles on many different forums. If they have sent out as many as it seems, I believe the FBI might be interested. |
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Peter_turner V.I.P. Bradford, West Yorkshire 1355 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-18 21:46, mastermindreader wrote: He contacted David Sena, trying to get some of our work out of him. David clocked on immediately this guy has some balls to contact people directly like that! Bob we know exactly who it is, it is the same little b*stard as last time and he needs hanging! Pete |
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