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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The August 2012 entrée: Shawn Farquhar » » Sealed deck routine release date? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Aractus
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Quote:
On 2012-08-19 21:43, Shawn Farquhar wrote:
Hi Guys,

I was expecting this question and I wish I had an answer you will like.
The fact is I had actually planned to release it way back in 2003!
It is ready to release and I have had a lot of interest from several of the big companies to represent it too.
It won't be called "Signed, Sealed and Delivered" as originally introduced... long story.
I have a new name and a plan on how to release the effect.
It will be very limited as I want to protect the secret for those that invest in the routine.
Details to be announced soon (see I said you wouldn't like the answer...)

-shawn

Sadly Shawn, mere mortals like myself who like to occupy their puny minds with problem solving puzzles have the unfortunate ability to figure out the techniques to these tricks. Or at least we think we can! I personally loved seeing the trick performed on Penn & Teller's Fool Us. I don't think you can "protect the secret" by doing a limited release because millions of people have seen it performed. You may not like that reality, but that's the reality of TV unfortunately. Just like how the levitation scene in The Exorcist was achieved with wires painted to blend into the background - the director, Friedkin, never chooses to reveal how he achieves his "secret" movie effects (his effect was good, I didn't see the wires the first time). "Signed, Sealed and Delivered" is a great trick so good luck with its continued commercial success.
Shawn Farquhar
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Mere mortals huh? Yeah me too, Aractus. I have no doubt that many like mind individuals with a bit of magic knowledge may be able to reverse engineer the effect. I don't think this endangers the secret. I think most of those people, after taking the time to discover the solution may in fact guard the secret as well. Yes, it may be a bit naive. I know of one case where a young Canadian medical student reverse engineered the effect from a Cyril video and although it is not totally correct it is very close in the solution. They funny thing was that he somehow felt entitled to sell the solution since he "figured it out". He blatantly said he had no regard for the magic community and just wanted to make a fast buck for his medical training. Yes there will always be people like this, but maybe with luck they are far and few between. I look to the guidance of great magicians like Armando Lucero who has successful taught and yet retained his closely guarded secrets. His idea of workshops and non-disclosure documents appears to be working.

As for the example of the Exorcist film ... I didn't know they used wires until this very moment. I guess that secret was still a secret to me...

-shawn

p.s. Thanks for posting for the first time during my time as a special guest Daniel.
korttihai_82
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Armando Lucero is a great example indeed as are in a way Bob Kohler Magic products but both have had their leaks. There is people around who have reverse engineered Armando's main moves (I have partisipated in the card workshop so I know when they have hit it completely right). Even at the moment there is two videos in Youtube other people doing Armando's matrix. Neither of the two has attented his workshop. Also there is people who have pirated version of Kohler holdout and Final Answer and others. So it is happening for them as well but to much lesser extend than to lets say some ellusionist or theory 11 routine but it is happening. Why? What are they doing differently?

The biggest difference with their approach to others that are pirated is that they keep the good stuff away from magicians in the first place. Armando for example simply doesn't perform much for magicians. He does only few conventions a year and doesn't usually allow any sort of video taping. Just try youtube, you will find at most 10 videos of the man at all. This is his own choise and topic all its own. Really interesting one I might add. If you attend to some of his workshops or can spend time with him just ask Smile

Same is true with many Kohler products. There isn't demos or such availeble that could give anyone enough info to reverse engineer what s going on. In some of the Bob Kohler products you also have to sign a lease that you cant perform that stuff for magicians (This was the case when I bought Scott Alexanders blades from him). It states that I cant use the routine in any magic convention, competition and such. This is no problem for me as I paid 800$ for the exclusivity but its been out for 2-3 years and I have yet to see anyone stealing it so it is also working.

I would assume that both of their products would be copied and ripped off more if people would be able to see em more. Your routine in that sense is in harder position. It is available all over the internet and youtube. So as hard as it might be to admit it, its already out there. There is also few products on the marked that are selling themselves on your routines reputation. Sadly I don't have any real solution on how to get it out in a safe way. If most magicians would be ethical there woudnt be any problems cos they would get it any way in order to get the performance rights when it is released. But in case you choose to go along same lines as for example Kohler has chosen to go with leases and high pricing, there will still be those people who just continue using it with their reverse engineered methods.

What ever your final solution ends up being I hope it will be success.

Juha-Matti
Shawn Farquhar
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Juha-Matti,

You really do understand the situation. I have been struggling with this for quite sometime.
I wasn't aware that Scott Alexander had a contract prohibiting magic event presentations, but that's a great addition to the Fitch/Kolher Holdout papers.
Thanks for your reply and well wishes.

-shawn
Aractus
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Quote:
On 2012-08-22 13:19, Shawn Farquhar wrote:
Mere mortals huh? Yeah me too, Aractus. I have no doubt that many like mind individuals with a bit of magic knowledge may be able to reverse engineer the effect. I don't think this endangers the secret. I think most of those people, after taking the time to discover the solution may in fact guard the secret as well.

I agree with that point, at least as long as the person thinks the trick is good illusion, if they think the trick is silly, like say "bending a pen" by jiggling it between two fingers, perhaps not.

As for the Exorcist, the "secret" is plainly visible in any case (maybe not on VHS), they are quite subtle though I imagine most people wouldn't see it in a single viewing, even though it's a long shot with plenty of opportunity to be seen. The fact that the wires were "painted" or coloured probably means someone involved on the set decided to tell the world! I actually think though that knowing too much about the effects in the movie can ruin the experience, but hey so do awfully done effects.
Quote:
Yes, it may be a bit naive. I know of one case where a young Canadian medical student reverse engineered the effect from a Cyril video and although it is not totally correct it is very close in the solution. They funny thing was that he somehow felt entitled to sell the solution since he "figured it out". He blatantly said he had no regard for the magic community and just wanted to make a fast buck for his medical training. Yes there will always be people like this, but maybe with luck they are far and few between. I look to the guidance of great magicians like Armando Lucero who has successful taught and yet retained his closely guarded secrets. His idea of workshops and non-disclosure documents appears to be working.

I know a few people in the medical world and some are indeed quite odd! Actually a lot of the people I know are odd, I'm probably odd as well.

-Daniel

ps Yes, I don't try to hide my identity, even if my avatar photo is 3 years old (I'll make a new one, I promise).
Quote:
On 2012-08-22 21:56, korttihai_82 wrote:
Your routine in that sense is in harder position. It is available all over the internet and youtube. So as hard as it might be to admit it, its already out there.

Nice post, and that ^^ was pretty much my point.
Aractus
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Quote:
On 2012-08-22 13:19, Shawn Farquhar wrote:
They funny thing was that he somehow felt entitled to sell the solution since he "figured it out".

I might just add that my views on plagiarism are quite strong - I don't like it. And if he sells your intellectual property (your copyright) that's akin to fraud in my mind. But you know, some people feel entitled to things that aren't theirs, or try to extort their way into things they aren't entitled to. To keep on the medical theme - like patients who lie to their doctors to continue medications they probably shouldn't be taking - squandering resources. Or if you were to go to a website I like, Australian Skeptics (yes they misspell sceptic for some unexplainable reason) you can read the reasons why the Sensaslim "weightloss product" is no more, or why they think the E-Cat is nothing more than a "magicians illusion". Unfortunately there are people who want to take advantage of others everywhere. Whether it's by selling shonky products, or promising things that are undeliverable, or by illegally copying the work and innovation of others, or customers who try to extort business. Unfortunately people don't like to be wrong, even if you can explain to them why they're wrong. And the internet's the perfect place for people to pretend they're something else. I wonder how this young medical student would do in a face-to-face confrontation? Or even a telephone confrontation? Anyway if there's one thing I've learned about these things it's that direct threats are not usually the best way to diffuse a difficuilt situation, and sometimes patience is a useful starting point.
Ba Ba Booey
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Quote:
On 2012-08-23 09:04, Aractus wrote:
Or if you were to go to a website I like, Australian Skeptics (yes they misspell sceptic for some unexplainable reason)


"Skeptics" and "sceptics" are both spelled (spelt) correctly. It all depends on whether you live in an apartment or a flat, or whether your favorite flavour of ice cream is chocolate or your favorite flavor is vanilla.
G. LaBarre
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In the old days, an effect or it modus operandi could remain a secret for decades. You purchased it, but it wasn't that easy or inexpensive to duplicate or put it into print to share.

I believe it's the speed at which things change nowadays, almost doubling exponentially in shorter time periods, that can be blamed for the rapid demise of magical effects and their secrets. That goes for any product out there really. The speed at which info is callously traded or shared easily on todays electronic mediums and the availability of at home equipment that makes hard copy prints and photos, is both a blessing and a curse. You can now learn more in less time than in any other period in history, but is anything really private or secret anymore and not subject to being abused by a population that has lost their value systems? i.e. Respect

Bring profit into the equation and you've got big time competition.
Glen Alan - "The HOW in your Magic should be Secondary to the WOW in your Magic."
Aractus
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The Chinese kept the origin of silk a closely guarded secret for 2,000+ years. Even today there are people who think they know what a silkworm is, yet don't know it's a moth!

Also leaks have their benefits, for instance "climategate" or "wikileaks", etc. Scrutiny (ie, scepticism) is also an important part of society, and at the same time one that is presently lacking.
rjs
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Aractus, pull your pants up.
Skeptics is the more accurate spelling.
It's closer to the original word derived from Ancient Greece.
The Aussies got it right!
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The August 2012 entrée: Shawn Farquhar » » Sealed deck routine release date? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes)
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