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SIX
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Quote:
On 2012-08-20 19:37, FrenchDrop wrote:
Nice transpo! The music in that video's very familiar...what's that from?


It is familiar....cant say where from yet ;-) Tomorrow morning will let you know :-P
SIX
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On 2012-08-20 18:07, saysold1 wrote:
Six-

Can you answer this?

For the revelation deck that is held in the spctator's hand or pocket - does that deck then get handed over at revelation time to the Magician for the final reveal?

Or does the spectator control the deck and show the revelation at the end in their own hands?

This is a fairly simple questions and hopefully should not reveal the methodology.

Thanks.

BRETT



Brett, the other comment makes sense now haha Its best if the magicians does it, but the spectator does take the cards out of the box and they could do what you asked. When the magicians does it, its more amazing because because there is a built in feature of the revaltion before the selection is ever named. Its a great piece of psycholgy. Yet, if you performance style wants them to find there card with our ever naming it, they just take it out, it is possible. I personally wouldnt though. Again, hope that makes sense lol

Six
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Quote:
On 2012-08-20 19:37, FrenchDrop wrote:
Nice transpo! The music in that video's very familiar...what's that from?


dexter
SIX
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http://www.facebook.com/pages/System-6-Magic/417056735019357

Our facebook page also if anyone is on facebook Smile
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Quote:
On 2012-08-20 19:52, AdamChance wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-20 19:37, FrenchDrop wrote:
Nice transpo! The music in that video's very familiar...what's that from?


dexter

That's it! I knew it was from some creepy TV show I like. Smile
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
SIX
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Haha well there goes our contest idea :-P We were going to do it tomorrow. Have to make it harder we see lol
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Hmmm

$30 seems a high price for a single effect , which in the good old days a creator like Nick Trost would write up in a book in about 2 pages but then again if demand and supply allows that price to succeed, then good for the creators.

Naturally marketing wording are coming into play to promote sales but can lead the less well read to think that the impossible is happening .

Having read the effect description , it took a few minutes to re create the effect exactly using a couple of principles applied in other effects. Now I maybe using completely different principles BUT here are some pointers from my version

Magicians Force - Yes or No ? My definition of a magician force is one where each deck has a specific task rather than be inter changeable . Therefore MF is applied here , however unlike other MF applications there is no ambiguous wording to suggest that the force is being used.

No gimmicks and ANY DECK - This may lead some to think I can rush and take out a red and blue deck and away we go .. As an example of market wording - If I have say a red deck made up of 52 Ace of Spades - This can be created using any deck , no rough or smooth , and no special/gimmicked cards .. However I would consider it a gimmicked deck .. Please note this is not the principle applied but an example of how wording can lead a buyer to see things through rose tinted glasses.

Think of any card - Effects such as Peter Duffies "vanished and Gone " any thought of card vanishes from deck, however to be clear here - It is any card the spectator can SEE - there is a difference though in the spectators mind they are the same.

With good spectator management the pocket deck can be handled in a limited way by the spectator .. However it is limited .

Given the limited spectator handling of these 2 ANY DECKS , the question is raised

Why not use just an Invisible deck for a 1/3 of the price ..for a thought of card to be the only different card in a deck you take from your pocket.

Or combine Duffie's Vanished and Gone effect ( This allows a spectator to think any card , when he holds a deck of card and then the spectator deals through it to prove it has vanished and can handle freely, not limited handling ) , Then use the invisible deck to show it has traveled to the other deck .

The point that this effect avoids using rough and smooth and special cards is moot when the spectator cannot handle the second deck freely .

For the price I feel customers should be given a clear view of what they are getting .

regards

Andy
SIX
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Andy, its wonderful to see magicians be critical of effects these days. I couldn't agree more with a lot of what you said. I will just share my view point in each item as an individual. I cant speak for anyone or thing, but myself. Now I know the Café is know for arguments and what not, but this is not one lol I agree with what you said, to be honest I used to fight for these kind of things, but I can only share what I have personally learned over time. I am in no way trying to change your mind, just share another view. This kind of stuff is touchy as its all relevant to times, situations and etc.

$30 being pricey is a weird statement, but not in any way a bad statement. I studied business and one thing I learned was a price is only relevant to the individual. To someone in the desert dying of thirst a $100 bottle of water is well worth it, yet to someone swimming in fresh water springs, most likely not the case. Someone called asking when the trick will be available as its perfect fr his tradeshow, for him its beneficial, for the person who throws stuff in their desk, its most likely not. Yet, your also not paying for just a secret, but the performers mind set and way he thinks. I tend to perform a lot of my own material, yet I study magicians like Tamariz, because his way of thinking about methods and effects is whats important to me, not the method. Again, its just me, I cant speak for everyone.

The good old days, are unfortunately long gone. Personally, I was fortunate enough to get into magic just before the online craze struck and books became my life. There is a pattern going on here, which is by no fault the creators nor the magic companies producuing them. What happened was they would sell these VHS/DVDs and wouldnt sell much, this was near the end of that kind of production...Now the cost of producing a good magic DVD averages out around five grand. That includes all shipping cost, production cost, design and very little advertising. This is for a single dvd. Now 90% of magic we can figure out these days due to video, pausing and etc. Now does that mean the effect would not be worth it, just because you figure it out...Unfortunately these days no matter how good an idea is, once its figured out people say "no need to buy, I know it". This means that everyone loses out and the people watching the video win...The creator then loses his idea, and whoever put the money up to film it loses out if they don't make the five grand back. Usually the creators hope to profir from their ideas otherwise why release it, you profit more from keeping the secret. Magic these days is no longer about secrets, everyone feels entitled to know how anything is done..I cant answer why.

I can see your viewpoint on gimmicks, for me a gimmick is something thatI have to contiounsly buy if I exhaust it. It is also something Id have to buy and cant recreate on my own by very simple means. A lot of magic is heading towards gimmicls mainly because they cant be ripped off easily, its sad but true. Paul Harris tends to release items like this because even if you figure out the secret, you have to buy the gimmick to perform it. With effects like this its scary because there is no gimmick and you can set it up on your own without any issue. Again, its just the market and the way its heading. Dealers don't control the market, the buyers do. If people wanted multiple effect dvds they would be selling a lot more then the one effect videos, yet its just not that way. I again, cant answer why, I do miss the good old days and plan to remarket items like that. Starting with my personal material I just filmed last night.


The issue with using Vanished and Gone and or an invisible deck is two fold. What happens if you don't have the decks, its easy to run to a store and get a couple decks versus finding an invisible deck at a gig. DVD is $30, playing cards vary depending on brand and location...Yet invisivble decks and vanished and gone cost a high amount of money which you would have to replace over time, in the long run $30 now would save you more money then that approach, we did the math lol Devonte and I also perform for a living, I assume you do as well just from you frame of thought. You and I both know that one walk around gig could kill an invisible deck, either drinks on tables, people grabbing cards and crumpling them to hide them or the many other millions of factors.

The spectators can handle the cards freely in a normal way, but there is some restriction, a spectator can never touch and invisible deck, little details like this make a difference for the performer and the audience. Its building a layer of deception, which I learned from Asi Wind. I will speak to him and doa video with him so he can share that viewpoint more clearly then I could.

I don't know if I missed anything, but thank you so much for taking to the time to write your post. Its not only important for magicians to hear but also companies to here as well. We are in a new era were the good old days are just the old days now. Its the same thing in every industry as the only thing that does not change, is change itself. Is it for the better or worse, well that's a persepective.

Thanks Andy, and please keep in touch, look forward to hopefully meeting one day if your ever in NYC.

Best,

Six



Quote:
On 2012-08-21 02:36, a brown 1968 wrote:
Hmmm

$30 seems a high price for a single effect , which in the good old days a creator like Nick Trost would write up in a book in about 2 pages but then again if demand and supply allows that price to succeed, then good for the creators.

Naturally marketing wording are coming into play to promote sales but can lead the less well read to think that the impossible is happening .

Having read the effect description , it took a few minutes to re create the effect exactly using a couple of principles applied in other effects. Now I maybe using completely different principles BUT here are some pointers from my version

Magicians Force - Yes or No ? My definition of a magician force is one where each deck has a specific task rather than be inter changeable . Therefore MF is applied here , however unlike other MF applications there is no ambiguous wording to suggest that the force is being used.

No gimmicks and ANY DECK - This may lead some to think I can rush and take out a red and blue deck and away we go .. As an example of market wording - If I have say a red deck made up of 52 Ace of Spades - This can be created using any deck , no rough or smooth , and no special/gimmicked cards .. However I would consider it a gimmicked deck .. Please note this is not the principle applied but an example of how wording can lead a buyer to see things through rose tinted glasses.


Think of any card - Effects such as Peter Duffies "vanished and Gone " any thought of card vanishes from deck, however to be clear here - It is any card the spectator can SEE - there is a difference though in the spectators mind they are the same.

With good spectator management the pocket deck can be handled in a limited way by the spectator .. However it is limited .

Given the limited spectator handling of these 2 ANY DECKS , the question is raised

Why not use just an Invisible deck for a 1/3 of the price ..for a thought of card to be the only different card in a deck you take from your pocket.

Or combine Duffie's Vanished and Gone effect ( This allows a spectator to think any card , when he holds a deck of card and then the spectator deals through it to prove it has vanished and can handle freely, not limited handling ) , Then use the invisible deck to show it has traveled to the other deck .

The point that this effect avoids using rough and smooth and special cards is moot when the spectator cannot handle the second deck freely .

For the price I feel customers should be given a clear view of what they are getting .

regards

Andy
Gaz Lawrence
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Nice post Six makes a lot of sense , looking forward to this release
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I would just like to point out that you wouldn't be able to do this effect 100% with an invisible deck and vanished and gone. It would only work 50% of the time.
SIX
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Quote:
On 2012-08-21 17:57, nanaswan wrote:
Nice post Six makes a lot of sense , looking forward to this release


Thanks Smile Hopefully tomorrow we will get the DVDs in Smile
SIX
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On 2012-08-21 18:37, MagicMaddy wrote:
I would just like to point out that you wouldn't be able to do this effect 100% with an invisible deck and vanished and gone. It would only work 50% of the time.


You sir are correct Smile
a brown 1968
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Thanks six for taking the time to write your response, appreciated.

With regard to Vanished and Gone..

I revised the original handling to go from 50% to 100% .
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On 2012-08-22 01:01, a brown 1968 wrote:
Thanks six for taking the time to write your response, appreciated.

With regard to Vanished and Gone..

I revised the original handling to go from 50% to 100% .



Not a problem at all Smile that's great that you revised the original handling in that way, would love to hear more about it.
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Quote:
On 2012-08-20 20:00, FrenchDrop wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-20 19:52, AdamChance wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-20 19:37, FrenchDrop wrote:
Nice transpo! The music in that video's very familiar...what's that from?


dexter

That's it! I knew it was from some creepy TV show I like. Smile

Yes, I heard you were a fan of all things creepy Smile
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On 2012-08-25 10:27, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-20 20:00, FrenchDrop wrote:
That's it! I knew it was from some creepy TV show I like. Smile

Yes, I heard you were a fan of all things creepy Smile

Yep! Sure am. I think a lot of magicians probably are. Do you not like Dexter or that kind of show?
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
BigSmile
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Any reviews yet?
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It's still pre order AFAIK.
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It should be availiable now!
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I received mine yesterday and hope to look at it today.
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