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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » Magicians can't make magic shows anymore, because of the cups? (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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FatHatter
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Thank you Jimmy for all you've done getting the word out. Was teetering on the edge when you entered my knowledge base and made all the difference. I'm happier, the magic is better, there are more smiles, and it's not troublesome. TPS reports are troublesome.
Stperformer
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I'm going to jump in here and add something I think is very very very important.
I qualify myself as being out there for a very long time, you'll just have to trust me in that.

Saying you are doing it for the sake of Art is in the right direction...but you have a ways to go yet.

After so so much time I realized that what is the most important thing in Street Theatre (for me) is the effect I have on the people watching my show. What I do is rather irrelevant...whether it be the cups & balls or whatever. It the charm, the wit, the drama, the humour....the ability to put it all together such that the person leaving my show has been affected in a possitive way. And in order to do that you need to be sincere in your actions and presentation.

You accomplish this, and your hats will end up being way beyond the money guys, while being somewhat more artistic than many of the 'artists'.

It's a very hard thing to describe unless you witness what I'm talking about...and there's very very few that have achieved this. But in my honest opinion, when you are able to have an emotional impact on the audience......that is the ultimate. What you do to get there, well that's totally up to you.

Hope this makes some sort of sense, Jimmy, as it's probably the most sincere and truest post I've made Smile
ibm_usa
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When life gives you the Cups & Balls. Use the Chop Cup. Or better yet come up with a new way of doing it that appears different. For my, as an example, I do not let the balls penatrate the cups. The cups *hint hint* serve as a "teleportation device" that allowes the balls to transport from cup to cup in a ball across routine with many twists and turns in the plot that I will not discuss here for the integrity of my routine. But you get the idea.

Posted: Aug 27, 2012 1:46pm
I have yet to come across this problem, however I understand the concern.
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
fireperformer911
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Stperformer

THANKS BEST POST YET!!!!
djurmann
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Surely there is a middle ground? I have put an act together. It is true to me, I am in a way proud of it as I put myself into it. But Having trialed it (as a brand new no nothing busker) if I had to rely on it to feed my family they would starve. Sir Richard says that a lot of his act is original. He says that he has a positive impact on his audiences and that he is rebooked, so we are not talking here of someone who is saying I will never create new material, or put my own spin on. We are talkign about someone who has mixed and matched to create a show that suits him and his audience.

Artistic integrity is all well and good. I plan to get better and keep true to myself (and I think Sir R does too) but if it was hold to some lofty ideal or starve then the lofty ideal can go hang. I'll work it AFTER there is food on the table.

Probably not winning nay friends here but well, I don't see anything much as black or white.

Love and blessings to all cantankerous b****** God knows a fire in the belly is good from time to time! Smile

Danny
Eduardo
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Quote:
On 2012-08-27 13:25, Stperformer wrote:
I'm going to jump in here and add something I think is very very very important.
I qualify myself as being out there for a very long time, you'll just have to trust me in that.

Saying you are doing it for the sake of Art is in the right direction...but you have a ways to go yet.

After so so much time I realized that what is the most important thing in Street Theatre (for me) is the effect I have on the people watching my show. What I do is rather irrelevant...whether it be the cups & balls or whatever. It the charm, the wit, the drama, the humour....the ability to put it all together such that the person leaving my show has been affected in a possitive way. And in order to do that you need to be sincere in your actions and presentation.

You accomplish this, and your hats will end up being way beyond the money guys, while being somewhat more artistic than many of the 'artists'.

It's a very hard thing to describe unless you witness what I'm talking about...and there's very very few that have achieved this. But in my honest opinion, when you are able to have an emotional impact on the audience......that is the ultimate. What you do to get there, well that's totally up to you.

Hope this makes some sort of sense, Jimmy, as it's probably the most sincere and truest post I've made Smile


Now we know you are good, charming, etc... I always like to hear this from the first person... congratulations...
djurmann
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No nothing? I meant know nothing. My English goes from bad to worse. Arrgh!
Pizpor
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Quote:
On 2012-08-27 13:25, Stperformer wrote:

After so so much time I realized that what is the most important thing in Street Theatre (for me) is the effect I have on the people watching my show. What I do is rather irrelevant...whether it be the cups & balls or whatever. It the charm, the wit, the drama, the humour....the ability to put it all together such that the person leaving my show has been affected in a possitive way. And in order to do that you need to be sincere in your actions and presentation.



EXACTLY! That's just perfect.
jimmy talksalot
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Stperformer,

so perfectly put it sounded like poetry, thank you.

and like you said, about being on the right track, that was what I was trying to do here, for some of the folks I felt weren't, but your absolutely 100% correct.

if the worker can grasp this he will master his work or at least be proud of what he is doing.

I've said to much you put it perfectly.

thank you so much for chiming in.
jimmy talksalot
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This is the kinda stuff, that keeps me from giving up here on the forums. thank you again.
Sir Richard
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On 2012-08-27 12:12, jimmy talksalot wrote:
FatHatter,

bravo and thank you.

brilliant.
After watching Jimmy on you tube yesterday, I realized that busking is not for me. I personally like bookings. No weather problems usually, no threats from thieves trying to steal your cash, and no costume that makes you look like a destitute homeless person. Ya all have a good one, ya hear?
"In the land of Murphy there is but ONE law!"
jimmy talksalot
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Lol.

thank you...finally.
RiffRaff
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I think the miscommunication that is occurring here is a function of the fact that Jimmy & Sir Richard have different definitions of what it means to be a successful performer.
Based on what I've read, I come to the following conclusion:
Jimmy believes that success as a performer is predicated on his ability to create an act that has artistic merit; that there the show has originality and that it reflects the performer's uniqueness to his audience.
Sir Richard believes that you can perform any piece of prefabricated material so long as "it's working"; meaning that audiences enjoy it, and that the performer is making money from it.
If I misrepresented either one of you, I apologize. Please correct me.
Dr_J_Ayala
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There have been a few great posts on here, and there have been many (far too many) posts with the same repeated message.

Two of the posts that stick out the most in my mind is that from Master Payne earlier in this thread, and the post from Stperformer above on this page, and two from Jimmy that I will get to later.

Many wise magicians will tell you that we must "imitate in order to innovate", and others will spout "Innovate, not imitate". Well, in my own opinion, for what it is worth, I believe that you must imitate in order to innovate. It is part of the learning process. That is how you learn to speak, that is how you learn to write, that is how you learn to ride a bicycle. However, all of that means absolutely nothing if you do not learn anything from the imitations. Without learning, there can be no innovation. If E. A. Poe did not learn more words by reading and writing after he learned how to speak by imitating his parents, teachers, etc., would he have been such a great and grand poet? Or if you prefer, think of that in terms of Shakespeare or Marlowe. Imitation is fine as a beginner or amateur for the purpose of learning, but so long as you keep on imitating and never forge your own paths of creativity toward originality, you will never be anything more than an amateur/beginner.

One of the posts that Jimmy made that sticks out to me was his question of why magicians do not create something of their own devices. In answer to that, as a few others have stated in so many words, is that nobody in this day and age wants to work. Everything must be instant and/or handed to them on a silver platter in its proper, polished and finite state of being, or else is no good, nor is it worthy of any of their precious time. You will hear plenty of excuses, and they are just that. It all comes down to people not wanting to work, and that is not just in the art of magic either.

The second post from Jimmy mentioned that in the 'old days' (sic) of magic, it was very hard to break into the business, though there were indeed hacks back then too. It is kind of funny because even at my young age, I remember growing up and going to a certain that-which-will-remain-nameless magic shop, and before the owner would even let me buy (or rather, my parents purchase for me, the 7 year old) anything, I had to read a certain book and practice 'x' from said book. I returned two weeks later after much practice and then I was told I had more to learn before I could make a purchase. Anyway, I had to earn the right to purchase certain items in the shop by gradually progressing to demonstrable knowledge and skill, and then I was allowed to purchase items at that level. Nobody does that anymore but that was how it was during the age of which Jimmy speaks - you had to earn your way in. To wit, there is a story about a famous magician visiting a town to perform his big illusion and magic show. After the show, a young boy approached the magician and told him, "I know hundreds of tricks, and I learned them all in a year. How many do you know"? The magician looked at him, smiled and said, "I know just three, and they have taken me a lifetime to learn".

As for the post by Stperformer, BRAVO! Is the installation of passion, emotion, thought-provocation and satisfaction what we, as magicians and the creators of the wonderous and purveyors of the mysterious, strive to do? I would get absolutely no satisfaction out of performing magic if at least one of my audience members did not leave without feeling one of those things. That is what magic is all about. In the words of the great master, Shimada, "Magic is not tricks...it is a way". As an actor, your job in playing a role is to make people believe the role and believe that the character is real. As a magician, your job is to make people experience (read: feel) the magic.
Octopus Sun
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Quote:
On 2012-08-26 20:39, Mormo Zine wrote:
I always thought someone should do a cups and buds act. Not on the street of course though.

I did at this at the dispensary I worked for in Nederland, CO played around at night in the OBM
for patients, problem is crushing that goodness as one works the final loads
ended with a loaded chilum passed to patients
not easy, and legal too.
no I don't do Gazzo or Vernon.
Eduardo
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Quote:
On 2012-08-27 12:02, FatHatter wrote:
Quote:
It's not that "I can't," it's that I learned sometime back that you can't argue with success.


I apologize for my mistake. It's not you can't it's you won't. IMHO that's even worse. You're cheating yourself and your audience.

Quote:
You seem to think you're one of the better ones, and you well may be.

If doing what a Magician should do makes me a "better one" then OK, I'll take that yolk.


Quote:
However just look at how many magicians there are out there NOT being that creative compared to the relatively few that are!

That's the point Sir. Look at how many there are! Doing my part not to be one of them. Trying to get the word out to others about the dark side and how it corrupts. Yes, Dark Side & Corruption. Would be a great name for a band with a female lead, lol.



Quote:
And by following what I'm doing I'm getting more bookings. Just got another one yesterday, as a matter of fact.

This is the rub right here. I don't get bookings. I don't solicit bookings. I don't even want bookings. I'm what they call a busker these days, a street performers if you will, a traveling theurgist if you won't. I go out and perform I don't sell tickets. Those that are attracted to my show see it, enjoy it (for the most part), and compensate me accordingly. My job is to be true to myself and my audience. They know the real deal when they see it. Even if it's not a highly polished deal they know it's real. I perform this way because I've had enough of corporate B.S. and commercial crap. This is where I'm coming from.
Do you busk Sir? Go out and do a show pro bono, draw your own audience, keep them & entertain them, watch some walk away, deal with law enforcement, deal with social environment, deal with weather, etc. ?

You wrote about meeting your goals. Do any of them have anything to do with busking?


you don't like the fat checks???? I love busking but if I have to wear the expensive suit to get the check I won't look back...
Sir Richard
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Quote:
On 2012-08-27 23:08, RiffRaff wrote:
I think the miscommunication that is occurring here is a function of the fact that Jimmy & Sir Richard have different definitions of what it means to be a successful performer.
Based on what I've read, I come to the following conclusion:
Jimmy believes that success as a performer is predicated on his ability to create an act that has artistic merit; that there the show has originality and that it reflects the performer's uniqueness to his audience.
Sir Richard believes that you can perform any piece of prefabricated material so long as "it's working"; meaning that audiences enjoy it, and that the performer is making money from it.
If I misrepresented either one of you, I apologize. Please correct me.
RiffRaff, that's an over-simplification. I do start out with "Pre-fabricated" magic, as did everybody else on this forum at one time or another. However, most have transposed into something else. Some things however, need to stay the same.

Sir Richard.
Quote:
On 2012-08-28 00:48, Dr_J_Ayala wrote:
There have been a few great posts on here, and there have been many (far too many) posts with the same repeated message.

Two of the posts that stick out the most in my mind is that from Master Payne earlier in this thread, and the post from Stperformer above on this page, and two from Jimmy that I will get to later.

Many wise magicians will tell you that we must "imitate in order to innovate", and others will spout "Innovate, not imitate". Well, in my own opinion, for what it is worth, I believe that you must imitate in order to innovate. It is part of the learning process. That is how you learn to speak, that is how you learn to write, that is how you learn to ride a bicycle. However, all of that means absolutely nothing if you do not learn anything from the imitations. Without learning, there can be no innovation. If E. A. Poe did not learn more words by reading and writing after he learned how to speak by imitating his parents, teachers, etc., would he have been such a great and grand poet? Or if you prefer, think of that in terms of Shakespeare or Marlowe. Imitation is fine as a beginner or amateur for the purpose of learning, but so long as you keep on imitating and never forge your own paths of creativity toward originality, you will never be anything more than an amateur/beginner.

One of the posts that Jimmy made that sticks out to me was his question of why magicians do not create something of their own devices. In answer to that, as a few others have stated in so many words, is that nobody in this day and age wants to work. Everything must be instant and/or handed to them on a silver platter in its proper, polished and finite state of being, or else is no good, nor is it worthy of any of their precious time. You will hear plenty of excuses, and they are just that. It all comes down to people not wanting to work, and that is not just in the art of magic either.

The second post from Jimmy mentioned that in the 'old days' (sic) of magic, it was very hard to break into the business, though there were indeed hacks back then too. It is kind of funny because even at my young age, I remember growing up and going to a certain that-which-will-remain-nameless magic shop, and before the owner would even let me buy (or rather, my parents purchase for me, the 7 year old) anything, I had to read a certain book and practice 'x' from said book. I returned two weeks later after much practice and then I was told I had more to learn before I could make a purchase. Anyway, I had to earn the right to purchase certain items in the shop by gradually progressing to demonstrable knowledge and skill, and then I was allowed to purchase items at that level. Nobody does that anymore but that was how it was during the age of which Jimmy speaks - you had to earn your way in. To wit, there is a story about a famous magician visiting a town to perform his big illusion and magic show. After the show, a young boy approached the magician and told him, "I know hundreds of tricks, and I learned them all in a year. How many do you know"? The magician looked at him, smiled and said, "I know just three, and they have taken me a lifetime to learn".

As for the post by Stperformer, BRAVO! Is the installation of passion, emotion, thought-provocation and satisfaction what we, as magicians and the creators of the wonderous and purveyors of the mysterious, strive to do? I would get absolutely no satisfaction out of performing magic if at least one of my audience members did not leave without feeling one of those things. That is what magic is all about. In the words of the great master, Shimada, "Magic is not tricks...it is a way". As an actor, your job in playing a role is to make people believe the role and believe that the character is real. As a magician, your job is to make people experience (read: feel) the magic.
So, have you ever seen me perform?

Sir Richard.
"In the land of Murphy there is but ONE law!"
Mario Morris
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What a thread, yes it has been beaten out before but for the first time this one I was really interested to read for the most part.

First off I want to appalled Jimmy for steeping out as he has done, well done Sir my hat is off to you!

I am going to keep this as brief as I can.
Speaking as a Magcian who performs Cup and Balls and who has made it his aim to have an original take on the C&B I can say honestly this is a hard path to walk!

First I was performing Circus, Juggling fire, THEN during the 80 perhaps you remember their was Circus fever through out the World. Circus shops sprang up every where and jugglers where on every street corner and still are. I thought stuff this so I moved on to escapes, then during the 90 every where escape acts sprang up every where
I thought to my self stuff this I want something different LOL, I know CUPS AND BALL LOL some more! Starting with the instructions from a box, then studying Cellini I then went on a Gazzo master class.
I learnt a lot about C&B but I still longed to have my own take on it!

Dare to be different

This has been a long tough uphill path to walk and now I am getting their.
The flack one can receive for choosing to be different is a joke.

I use china cups, I have a collection of copper cups but in my show china.
Over and over again oh that not right, a Magician cant afford cheap props bla, bla, bla.
My loads are all glass including my hat load, which all makes sense in my finally on a good day it can match my SJ escape show.
I played with accents YET more flack little beaching magicians.
I have wowed audiances around the world recived awards for my shows yet I let little beaching magicians get me down untill I realized It don't matter what they beaching about it REALLY don't.

I agree with a with both sides learn from masters with the aim of making it yours as you learn.

Avoid teachers who do not encourage you to do so or become bitter because of your success!

Getting flack is sometimes part of the road you must walk in order to achieve success

One of the hardest lesson I have been learning is to keep on keeping focused on your own vision regardless.

I will add hear a McBride Magic TV show which is a very positive episode to Brain Storming new ideas. If is well worth a watch if you missed it. It will help us on the path to becoming new-nick individuals and performers!
http://www.livestream.com/mcbridemagic/v......17a5811b

Mario
Dr_J_Ayala
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Well said Mario! Folks, who better to hear this from than Mr. Mario Morris, and who would know any better??
FatHatter
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Quote:
On 2012-08-27 18:27, Sir Richard wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-27 12:12, jimmy talksalot wrote:
FatHatter,

bravo and thank you.

brilliant.
After watching Jimmy on you tube yesterday, I realized that busking is not for me. I personally like bookings. No weather problems usually, no threats from thieves trying to steal your cash, and no costume that makes you look like a destitute homeless person. Ya all have a good one, ya hear?


"But I see your true colours
Shining through"
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