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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » Magicians can't make magic shows anymore, because of the cups? (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Sir Richard
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On 2012-08-28 10:16, Dr_J_Ayala wrote:
Well said Mario! Folks, who better to hear this from than Mr. Mario Morris, and who would know any better??
I hear you and others say that you're not all that concerned about the money, yet I notice you don't miss the opportunity to get your hat out there fast enough. Just sayin'.

Posted: Aug 28, 2012 12:38pm
I think it's safe to say that Buskers are going to view things differently than non-buskers. As for "pre-fabricated" tricks, any buskers on here do "crazyman's handcuffs? How about the Professor's nightmare? My mentor was once asked what he thought about a magician that performed for a group he was with down in Florida. He asked if they wanted him to speak honestly, or just be nice. They said that they wanted honesty. Here's what he told them:

1.) The man's shoes were scuffed and dirty.

2.) His clothes needed to be cleaned and pressed.

3.)There was dirt under his fingernails and he should have took a shower before showing up.

4.) He used the wrong line to a young girl.

Please note that 75% of what he saw in a negative vein was all about the magician's appearance. No offense meant to anyone here, but if that's the way you feel you have to look to perform then more power to ya! I wouldn't drop a dime in a hat by a performer that looked that way. I'd just be thinking he was trying to get enough scratch to get another bottle of "Mad-Dog 20-20." And if you don't think that how you impress your audience is important...well, I don't know what to tell you.

Sir Richard.
"In the land of Murphy there is but ONE law!"
Pizpor
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Different strokes.

So, what's impressive to your mentor is the purely superficial?
Pizpor
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Never mind. That was actually a rhetorical question. I knew the answer.
ed rhodes
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Well, to be fair, the purely superficial is the first thing we see and that first impression can never be regained.
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
Pizpor
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Right. I guess it's that whole book/cover dichotomy.

Oh well. Kind of sad the way members of certain performing arts judge each other. I'll look up the magicians cookie cutter model for successful expression and get up to speed. Thanks
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Ed and Pizpor - well said, gents.
Rotten
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Once you know what a filet tastes like sirloin is no longer as impressive. This place is a hot dog.
Sir Richard
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On 2012-08-28 12:51, Pizpor wrote:
Different strokes.

So, what's impressive to your mentor is the purely superficial?
Gazzo also teaches it on his DVD...uh...he is a Busker as well...right?

Sir Richard.
"In the land of Murphy there is but ONE law!"
RiffRaff
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On 2012-08-28 12:38, Sir Richard wrote:
I think it's safe to say that Buskers are going to view things differently than non-buskers. As for "pre-fabricated" tricks, any buskers on here do "crazyman's handcuffs? How about the Professor's nightmare? My mentor was once asked what he thought about a magician that performed for a group he was with down in Florida. He asked if they wanted him to speak honestly, or just be nice. They said that they wanted honesty. Here's what he told them:

1.) The man's shoes were scuffed and dirty.

2.) His clothes needed to be cleaned and pressed.

3.)There was dirt under his fingernails and he should have took a shower before showing up.

4.) He used the wrong line to a young girl.

Please note that 75% of what he saw in a negative vein was all about the magician's appearance. No offense meant to anyone here, but if that's the way you feel you have to look to perform then more power to ya! I wouldn't drop a dime in a hat by a performer that looked that way. I'd just be thinking he was trying to get enough scratch to get another bottle of "Mad-Dog 20-20." And if you don't think that how you impress your audience is important...well, I don't know what to tell you.

Sir Richard.


Stay on topic, Sir.
This is not not a discussion on the hygienic habits of some magician observed by your mentor.
We were having a debate between performance integrity versus copy-cat acts.
When we left off you were extolling on the virtues of hackdom.
Thus far, you have come up with one argument: that "it works".
Would you like to add to the list?
Pizpor
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On 2012-08-28 18:00, Sir Richard wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-28 12:51, Pizpor wrote:
Different strokes.

So, what's impressive to your mentor is the purely superficial?
Gazzo also teaches it on his DVD...uh...he is a Busker as well...right?

Sir Richard.


Ouch! Got me. I guess I missed that nugget. I'll go back and review.

Just help me out here, you want to quote the sources that support your notion of artistic expression, ok. But you also want to impose your opinion of art on a whole galaxy of possible ways to be something original as some sort of tried and true gospel. Hmmmmm....

Are you just pretending to not get the original thought of this thread: challenge yourself to be original?

I got to tell you, I created a whole act based solely on the premise of being the complete opposite of every magician you've ever seen. It's been running 8 years strong now. I'm really glad I didn't get sucked into this conversation when I was developing it.

Have you seen me perform?
Sir Richard
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Quote:
On 2012-08-28 19:44, Pizpor wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-28 18:00, Sir Richard wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-28 12:51, Pizpor wrote:
Different strokes.

So, what's impressive to your mentor is the purely superficial?
Gazzo also teaches it on his DVD...uh...he is a Busker as well...right?

Sir Richard.

Ouch! Got me. I guess I missed that nugget. I'll go back and review.

Just help me out here, you want to quote the sources that support your notion of artistic expression, ok. But you also want to impose your opinion of art on a whole galaxy of possible ways to be something original as some sort of tried and true gospel. Hmmmmm....

Are you just pretending to not get the original thought of this thread: challenge yourself to be original?

I got to tell you, I created a whole act based solely on the premise of being the complete opposite of every magician you've ever seen. It's been running 8 years strong now. I'm really glad I didn't get sucked into this conversation when I was developing it.

Have you seen me perform?
No I haven't, looking forward to it actually. And by the way, did you ever hear the expression "Art is in the eye of the beholder?" Or "One man's garbage is another man's art?" If you want to discuss "artistic" I think that opens up a large can of worms. Who decides? The performer? The audience? Other magicians? do they vote? How does it work? Do we hold up "point cards" like they do in figure skating competitions? Yes, I'm being facetious, but perhaps you see my point. The term "art" is at best, ambiguous, right? How do we really know? My opinion on the success of Jimmy's "art," as well as others on here, is that "it works!" The audiences like it and it makes the buskers money...which is what I said about my stuff way back in the beginning, remember?

Sir Richard.

Quote:
On 2012-08-28 19:13, RiffRaff wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-28 12:38, Sir Richard wrote:
I think it's safe to say that Buskers are going to view things differently than non-buskers. As for "pre-fabricated" tricks, any buskers on here do "crazyman's handcuffs? How about the Professor's nightmare? My mentor was once asked what he thought about a magician that performed for a group he was with down in Florida. He asked if they wanted him to speak honestly, or just be nice. They said that they wanted honesty. Here's what he told them:

1.) The man's shoes were scuffed and dirty.

2.) His clothes needed to be cleaned and pressed.

3.)There was dirt under his fingernails and he should have took a shower before showing up.

4.) He used the wrong line to a young girl.

Please note that 75% of what he saw in a negative vein was all about the magician's appearance. No offense meant to anyone here, but if that's the way you feel you have to look to perform then more power to ya! I wouldn't drop a dime in a hat by a performer that looked that way. I'd just be thinking he was trying to get enough scratch to get another bottle of "Mad-Dog 20-20." And if you don't think that how you impress your audience is important...well, I don't know what to tell you.

Sir Richard.


Stay on topic, Sir.
This is not not a discussion on the hygienic habits of some magician observed by your mentor.
We were having a debate between performance integrity versus copy-cat acts.
When we left off you were extolling on the virtues of hackdom.
Thus far, you have come up with one argument: that "it works".
Would you like to add to the list?
RiffRaff, I AM original. I use the patter that comes with an effect until I figure out my own. If you want to stay on topic then go all the way back to when Jimmy mentioned his anger/frustration at all of the "Gazzo Clones" and I said that I agreed with him. So what's your point? The only reason the thread went sideways is that some of you jumped on my comment about what I saw on YouTube.

I use my own material for about 95% of what I do. I even found a nice patter for "Lazy Man's Card Trick!" It's great! I don't know that you'd call it artistic, but I like it.

Sir Richard.
"In the land of Murphy there is but ONE law!"
Eduardo
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Quote:
On 2012-08-28 11:01, FatHatter wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-27 18:27, Sir Richard wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-27 12:12, jimmy talksalot wrote:
FatHatter,

bravo and thank you.

brilliant.
After watching Jimmy on you tube yesterday, I realized that busking is not for me. I personally like bookings. No weather problems usually, no threats from thieves trying to steal your cash, and no costume that makes you look like a destitute homeless person. Ya all have a good one, ya hear?


"But I see your true colours
Shining through"


Generally true colors are brigther whem busking because the "social thing" is smaller... the videoclip is colourful and inspiring...
jimmy talksalot
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I wear my street appearance like a badge, thank you.

the people feel I am authentic, I know this because of all the comments over the years after my show and it has contributed to the good hats and excitement of the audience.

I have no arguement that a magician should look a little more formal than his audience, but it is not the character I am portraying. I am portraying a tramp who thinks he is a great magician...but he' just a tramp.

if it works......the audience begins to root for me and obeys my crowd control commands....

there's a lot more to it, but as riff raff has pointed out, this thread has been derailed many several times by sir richard, who I think has very little knowledge of the street venue aside from his own bleak and narrow romantic vision of it....which is fine....like he has said it's not his venue.

I would just ask that he stop talking as an authority on it with his untried theories.

as far as what he seems to know about, the indoors, I also worked many years indoors for private gigs and yes, got the manicures and pressed the shirts....but I also beat out any and all of the competition with my original work.

this can be verified simply by contacting Jaime O Hara in las cruces nm. who also had a very original act and together we dominated that entire region strictly from word of mouth. the competition using sir richard's way of thinking, lost work, also due to word of mouth.

and that is on topic.
RobertSmith
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This thread has been very interesting to read.

Quote:
Mario Morris wrote: "Avoid teachers who do not encourage you to do so or become bitter because of your success!"


Can't agree with that enough.

Jimmy, I guess I am curious at one thing. If you feel your show is successful and a quality product, why the concern for all the people who perform a cups routine?

One other question - what region did you dominate with Jaime? He's a heck of a performer. I'm sure you had a good time doing that.
jimmy talksalot
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One last thing, on the street there is a special feel for the live audience that can not be felt on a youtube video.

I am not sure which video is in question here, but one thing I am sure of is that me and my audience felt the experience that day and I know someone watching a one dementional clip might not.

I have always thought it unfair to judge a street show from a clip even if the performer watching it is a street performer, granted the street guy will be able to see a lot more then a layman when watching it, but he himself will know there was a lot more going on out there that he can't see or feel.

I can't tell you how many times I have had performers come up to me and tell me wow, that was a great show, I saw footage of you and didn't think you were any good.

I am not trying to brag here, honestly, it's just the situation this happens to all performers good or bad, this can be manipulated of course by very good camera men and film directors as is the case with blain or angel, as an example.....you can almost feel what the audience is feeling in their shows.

and sorry, now I'm moving a little off topic, but I thought it should be said, since we were talking about creating magic shows and creating a quality original product.

and I try and make a show that can transfer from one venue to another. some street shows ONLY work on the street, but I have tried to make mine "play" other venues also.

Posted: Aug 29, 2012 9:47am
Robert smith,

my concern is for the venue and the magic industry.

I want our industry to put out the highest quality they can. I am not sure that my show is the highest quality, but I am trying to do everything I can to make it that way....i may not succeed, but I feel justified in doing everything in my power to do that.

you see I really care about our art, no really, I take it seriously, to me it is not some thing I can do mediocre to make a living, this thing is bigger than us and it has been for thousands of years...i am a fanatic...an d I believe the layman expect this and deserve it.

if I'm failing and I suck, at least I am doing the best I can, without excuses and justification for cutting corners. and yeah if a master has some problem with your success, that is a serious flaw/ ego/ jealousy problem.

my students at this point are all better than me and I am proud about them and brag about them. I promote them and support them when ever I can....and I am very hard on them to be loyal to our traditions and it has paid off, they are all successful and have brilliant original shows.

THEY ARE MY PROOF THAT WHAT I SAY WORKS.

many of them are more well known than me, do better magic than me, and most of them make more money than me lol and I am proud of this. they are always my vindication.
RobertSmith
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On 2012-08-29 09:47, jimmy talksalot wrote:
Robert smith,

my concern is for the venue and the magic industry.

I want our industry to put out the highest quality they can.

I am not sure that my show is the highest quality, but I am trying to do everything I can to make it that way....i may not succeed, but I feel justified in doing everything in my power to do that.

you see I really care about our art, no really, I take it seriously, to me it is not some thing I can do mediocre to make a living, this thing is bigger than us and it has been for thousands of years...i am a fanatic...an d I believe the layman expect this and deserve it.

if I'm failing and I suck, at least I am doing the best I can, without excuses and justification for cutting corners.

and yeah if a master has some problem with your success, that is a serious flaw/ ego/ jealousy problem.

my students at this point are all better than me and I am proud about them and brag about them. I promote them and support them when ever I can....and I am very hard on them to be loyal to our traditions and it has paid off, they are all successful and have brilliant original shows.

THEY ARE MY PROOF THAT WHAT I SAY WORKS.

many of them are more well known than me, do better magic than me, and most of them make more money than me....lol...and I am proud of this.

they are always my vindication.


Cool man. I'm down with that.

As a side note - hope you're doing okay with Isaac down there. Stay safe.
jimmy talksalot
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Isaac who down where?

I think my senility is kickin in again lol.

I'm in madrid, right now.
RobertSmith
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On 2012-08-29 10:00, jimmy talksalot wrote:
Isaac who down where?

I think my senility is kickin in again lol.

I'm in madrid, right now.


Well that would explain it. Hurricane hitting Louisiana and Mississippi as we speak. Enjoy Madrid.
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On 2012-08-28 15:37, Dr_J_Ayala wrote:
Ed and Pizpor - well said, gents.


Yay! I said something that didn't tick people off! That seems to be a first for me recently.
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
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Quote:
On 2012-08-29 12:36, ed rhodes wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-08-28 15:37, Dr_J_Ayala wrote:
Ed and Pizpor - well said, gents.


Yay! I said something that didn't tick people off! That seems to be a first for me recently.


Gee whiz...really ticks me off when people congratulate themselves...

Just kidding Ed...always enjoy your comments and insight
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
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