|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3..8~9~10~11~12..18~19~20 [Next] | ||||||||||
ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
Thanks. I try, being aware that I am not only a "weekend warrior," but also I'm aware that I'm NOT totally original as Jimmy or Gazzo.
Having said that, as I've said before, I will not do Gazzo's routine because I don't believe I can bring anything to it.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
|
|||||||||
RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-08-29 13:41, ed rhodes wrote: One doesn't do Gazzo's routine to bring something to it. One does Gazzo's routine for what it brings to them. If you're just starting out performing as I was a decade ago, his act is an excellent way to get out there with a proven framework. It gives you a product to put out on display and figure out WHY things work the way they do. That is one of the most valuable things that happens in choosing to do a proven act. You save time reinventing the wheel and (hopefully) begin to create your own bits in the process. |
|||||||||
FatHatter Regular user I'm here you're there and that's that. 137 Posts |
Quote:
So that's why we never get any new wheels. |
|||||||||
jimmy talksalot Special user new orleans 757 Posts |
Robert smith,
or you could be like a magician and make your own magic show. you know like magicians have always been thought of as doing. I WOULD NEVER DO ANYONES SHOW TO GET WHAT I CAN OUT OF IT. WOW. getting in the habit of copying won't make you any more original. sure it's harder on your ego and your hat that's the point. these are called dues. believe me you will understand A LOT quicker what's working and what's not working and why, going out there with your own material because you will have to use your brain. if you believe your a magician, than all you have to do is be yourself. Posted: Aug 29, 2012 6:46pm Sorry, I think I talk a little too "street" on here sometimes. this hurt me bad, when I was lecturing, it really put a lot of people off. so if it's bothering you, try and understand this is the sort of thing you might confront from street guys if you go out there....unfiltered opinion. |
|||||||||
Devious Inner circle 2120 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-08-29 09:23, RobertSmith wrote: Hmmmmm?.... |
|||||||||
jimmy talksalot Special user new orleans 757 Posts |
At the time of my leaving el paso,
I had booked as normal. 6 or 7 gigs on sat. 6 on sun 5 on fri and 3 or 4 everyday weedays. this was my average. I held this schedual for 4 years. in el paso and surounding areas. on top of all this madness I owned a magic shop in el paso. this schedual also included the 7 resteruants that we had secured in el paso alone. and the only two stadiums in the area were booked for games, also schools, churchs, and libraies. programs specially written for the venues which were due totally to jaime's marketing ablity and talent to hold these jobs. jaime's really the success story here, I just worked with him very closely. the fact is jaime's schedule was a lot fuller than mine having worked there 17 years before me there and he began by giving me his overflow which saved my life at the time, because in the begining I was starving. I worked el paso and parts of texas, but he worked texas and new mexico and surrounding states. I say all this knowing you already knew this Devious and are living up to your name for some reason with this. also, I would like to add for robert, cellini would tell all the beginners, when you go out there, "take the three tricks that you know well and use those, the ones you always do when out or carry in you pockets, and some one asks you to do a trick, the three you know never fail and go out with those." he didn't say, here take this gazzo's dvd and memorize it and you'll be more original one day after you get the hang of street performing. and he has quite a legacy of masters that he taught and influenced, more then any of us here I might add. |
|||||||||
Devious Inner circle 2120 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-08-29 19:48, jimmy talksalot wrote: I was trying to give you a nice segue buddy...hope you are enjoying Espana. Dr J. Ayala was born there by the way. |
|||||||||
jimmy talksalot Special user new orleans 757 Posts |
I miss you and roger out there mi hermanos, I hope everything's good with you. I wish you were here simon.
on el paso time in spanglish. lol Posted: Aug 29, 2012 8:14pm Viva espana |
|||||||||
Dr_J_Ayala Inner circle In search of Vlad Dracul and his 2169 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-08-29 18:41, jimmy talksalot wrote: As I said in my first post on this thread, it is perfectly fine to imitate in order to learn, as a beginner or an amateur, BUT if you do not learn anything from imitating others (LEARN being the operative word) you cannot even begin to forge your own path toward creativity and originality, and you will never be anything more than a beginner/amateur. Well said Jimmy. Quote:
On 2012-08-29 20:14, jimmy talksalot wrote: Y viva la Furia! |
|||||||||
RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-08-29 18:41, jimmy talksalot wrote: Listen I didn't say that's the only way. If you feel your way worked well, that's fine. I don't need to take a square out to understand it's not rolling because it's not round. That's just my perspective. Is my perspective or yours superior? It doesn't matter. I'm now very successful (sans Gazzo's act) and clearly you are as well. As for being original, let me ask you, do you really genuinely believe your show is, "original?" I don't ask that as an insult. I ask that genuinely. Quote:
On 2012-08-29 19:48, jimmy talksalot wrote: Hey fair enough. Just remember, I'm not the one who put my act for sale on DVD. Perhaps you shouldn't be critical of those who bought the act but those who put it out there for purchase to begin with? Also keep in mind, Jim was a legendary street performer. I don't busk. I make my living in the fair industry. And while the environments are very similar, there's also some distinct differences. You can get away with 1,000 times more on the street than I can in my market. |
|||||||||
jimmy talksalot Special user new orleans 757 Posts |
To think any tricks could be invented by me would arrogant and foolish.
tricks are like color on a palet, but to say an artist is unoriginal because he uses paint isn't fair. but the arrangement of tricks into personally made routines combined with a unique character that these routines were made by, is not arrogant or foolish, it's making a magic show. I feel my show is more original than it would be if I copied an insult cups show or a straight jacket, one trick, hype, circle show...and tried to work it out how to be original. I am as original I believe as any other magician doing a magic show other than gazzos or the hype straight jacket. don't get me wrong either I think the straight jacket is a great tool, I love it and it can be done originally. the first time I did it, I got myself into it and than got myself out of it, no audience participation, I did it as a mime clown trying to wear the strange jacket..i did not do it as a finale..i thought I was the only one doing this til I saw a girl who has been putting it on and taking it off for years, her act his super original I think it's super brilliant. she's a girl who tells a love story through mime who get's in and out of a straight jacket to the song crazy by patsy kline. the routine is an important part of the story. or Michael patrick hanging upside down by a tripod espacping from two different types of jackets at the same time wow. both these examples still a jacket, but thought out and presented to fit thier characters. I feel I present my tricks differently in the same manner. example with the cups why not do it on the ground silent as a crowd builder? or do it as part of a manipulation act and a cup and bowl are sitting on the table from your lunch and things appear sometimes under them but not as often as they appear in your hands or behind your knee or elbow etc. WHY do I have to tell magicians what a magic show is on the magic Café? you know us magicians don't get excited about the next t.v. magic special knowing it's going to be another gazzo clone. or go to the conventions to see thousands of gazzo clones. or read our magic magazines to learn about the newest gazzo clones. or seesion at the meetings to learn how to be better magic clones. or buy old books to see how the first gazzo clones...cloned. or go to the magic shop and say, I only want to see the tricks that are in gazzos show. I could go on. people here are having a hard time getting my point or they just don't want to do the work and are throwing stuff at me to see how may times I can state the obvious. |
|||||||||
RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-08-30 04:51, jimmy talksalot wrote: Your point started out about cups. Based on this post, your problem doesn't seem to be cups & balls. Your problem seems to be Gazzo's act and those who do it. You said yourself, it's not fair to criticize an artist for using paint. Not all performers who utilize a cups routine are doing Gazzo's act. I understand many do. But tell me, in relation to the cups, since that is the topic of this entire thread, what is it about Gazzo's cups that define them as Gazzo's? Is it one sequence over another? Magicians have moved balls from one cup to another for centuries. Is it the six oranges? The hat load? You clearly take exception with, "Gazzo clones." What about Sonny Holiday clones? |
|||||||||
jimmy talksalot Special user new orleans 757 Posts |
Robert, maybe you got creative, not "because" you copied someone, but "inspite" of it.
robert your a good guy and I'm sorry I'm sort of picking on you, but I'm going to try and show a deeper concept here; I think gazzo is a master at what he does and I watch his act and laff, brilliant really, but, I do not feel a strong connection to gazzo or his work in my life or in my work...not my cup of tea. in my act all the butt of the jokes fall on me. I watched gazzos dvds and read all his books and I don't remember him saying, "alright everyone copy this act." I have heard a lot of "money first guys" who have some sort of investment in the products or are bilking us magicians or the clones say, it's his own fault he put out the product... wow, how ungrateful this sounds. saddly, one thing is for sure I will never put out a, "how to do my act dvd or book." for magicians to take pieces out and create their own shows with...because they won't they'll just copy me word for word. here's why; when I spoke to gazzo about this, some years back in london, he told me that he put into the book and into the dvd: -something to the effect that; his act was merely an EXAMPLE of a system one should learn.... some of you may need to read that again, what it's saying is, DON'T COPY SHOW-LEARN SYSTEM IN DVD. I said, "why didn't you put this statement on every page at the top as a header and every scene in the dvd and printed at the top of the screen for the whole dvd so they will understand." he said, "why?" "no one is that stupid." well, now we can see how wrong gazzo can be. fact is he was surprised probably as much as the rest of us, who wouldn't copy, because a magician would feel shame for copying and missing the whole point of the product that there is a system that needs to be learned not another man's show. anyway, it is not my place to talk for him or about him I felt cornered into it so I did. he may have even changed his opinion on the subject for all I know and that is errelevant anyway to the point of this thread. but, that essentially is why I don't think this is about gazzo at all. this is about magicians who can't make magic shows......you know what magicians do....make magic shows. so I will have to refrain from any other discussion about gazzo. I really like his old friend gary animal why don't we talk about him....he rocks I love his stage presence and comedy and his magic is really good. not to mention he makes argueably the best cups in the world by hand. Posted: Aug 30, 2012 10:06am And by the way nobody is good enough to clone sonny yet. Posted: Aug 30, 2012 10:08am Sorry, I was writing as you posted so I didn't get a chance to answer your questions. suffice to say you know good and well the diiference between gazzo and lets say tommy wonder or lance Burton or rick jay and the list goes on so you tell me what the difference is I'm tired now of stating the obvious. Posted: Aug 30, 2012 10:12am Find me just one, just one guy doing sonny's act. you can't. I can find you a minimum of 25 guys on youtube doing gazzos in seconds. and I know there must be thousands. |
|||||||||
Sir Richard Special user 650 Posts |
Quote: Jimmy, are you serious? Of course Gazzo expected it, that's why he gives explicit instructions on the DVD for the performers who want to do it and why he gives permission for them to use his jokes. Why else would he expect anybody to buy it? It's "six of one and a half dozen of the other." You can't accuse the "clones" without accusing Gazzo as well. On the DVD Gazzo also shows a young girl whom he's taught his act by name of "Billie," if memory serves me correctly. However I agree with you on the lack of quality with what the "clones" are doing. Just saw somebody by name of "Davenport" put me to sleep with Gazzo's act on YouTube!
On 2012-08-30 10:04, jimmy talksalot wrote: Sir Richard. Quote:
On 2012-08-30 09:11, RobertSmith wrote: Well said Robert! Sir Richard.
"In the land of Murphy there is but ONE law!"
|
|||||||||
Devious Inner circle 2120 Posts |
Uno, dos, tres.....
|
|||||||||
FatHatter Regular user I'm here you're there and that's that. 137 Posts |
Un.deux..trois...
|
|||||||||
Dr_J_Ayala Inner circle In search of Vlad Dracul and his 2169 Posts |
Uno, due, tre... Or caveman style: uh, uh uh, and three...
|
|||||||||
FatHatter Regular user I'm here you're there and that's that. 137 Posts |
Një Dy Tre
|
|||||||||
imgic Inner circle Moved back to Midwest to see 1336 Posts |
Many years ago, while on the high school swim team, a coach told us something I always found very valuable; "Stay in your own lane." He didn't imply we were so bad we'd stray into other lanes, but the only thing that mattered was how well you did. Focus on yourself, challenge yourself, and don't worry about others. I'd apply that here...work your routines as you want and don't worry about others. If they want to be Gazzo clones, what does it matter to somebody else? Work your materail to the best of your ability.
In the long run the clones will fall victim to economic pressures...saw a great example a few weekends ago in Boulder. Three jugglers were busking, I've seen all three of their acts at various times: they all use a height trick (unicycle or ladder), I've seen them use the same lines, jokes and gags. But this weekend they were all sharing same pitch...one after another. So I saw a variety of jokes: they changed it up a bit. If they hadn't, the last one in the rotation would have found himself with a small hat indeed. If there are 10 Gazzo clones in an area: it's unlikely they'll all survive. And I'd think somebody would be happy to have 10 clones around them...makes someone with a unique set stand out all that much more. So if there are clones out there...who cares? Swim in your own lane and work on improving yourself to the best of your desires and abilities.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
|
|||||||||
RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-08-30 10:06, jimmy talksalot wrote: Perhaps not. But some seem to be trying. Quote:
On 2012-08-30 10:04, jimmy talksalot wrote: I can't say anything to what Gazzo may or may not have said to you. I wasn't there. However, if Gazzo did not intend people to do his act/tricks then please explain... *Gazzo's routine on VHS & then DVD *Gazzo cups *Gazzo pouch *Gazzo Tossed Out Deck *Gazzo's Read Between the Lines And on. and on. Please know, this is no offense to Gazzo. The man is a legendary performer and many, myself included, owe him a debt of thanks. However, I just don't accept for one second that he only intended his routine to be a "system," to develop an act. Fact is, he likely saw an opportunity to make money selling his act and props, and he did. Can you blame him? Heck no. The stuff he's put out along the way is amazing and hopefully has made him good money. I digress however...I agree with you Jimmy, enough of Gazzo the man in this discussion. Back to the cups. And speaking of the cups...Jimmy...can you distinguish for me, what part of Gazzo's cups routine makes it his? You say you can find Gazzo clones all over YouTube. That's no doubt true. Everything is on YouTube. But what part of the Cups is Gazzo's? Perhaps if we could distinguish that then all the clones could change that part? As I said before, magicians have moved balls under cups for centuries. So what is it? The first sequence? The hat load? The six oranges? Or perhaps more abstract. If someone uses large copper cups and a pouch are they therefore a "Gazzo clone?" |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » Magicians can't make magic shows anymore, because of the cups? (14 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3..8~9~10~11~12..18~19~20 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.12 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |