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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » Magicians can't make magic shows anymore, because of the cups? (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mario Morris
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On 2012-09-02 23:12, jimmy talksalot wrote:
I miss you james.

I hope eveything is good with you.

your a good friend.



I agree with the first part of your post.

Now boys, kiss but no tounges remeber its a family show.
magicalaurie
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"Every thought you think, word you speak, and action you take proceeds from either love or fear. Peace and upset, innocence and guilt, healing and illness all spring from that one fundamental choice." Alan Cohen
https://magicalaurieblog.wordpress.com/
jimmy talksalot
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Thank you laurie.

I would suggest everyone click on that link.
Sir Richard
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On 2012-09-03 06:38, jimmy talksalot wrote:
Thank you laurie.

I would suggest everyone click on that link.


I read it Jimmy, so what? I do hope Gazzo is ready for disappointment. As I said earlier, personally I don't copy gazzo, although I could since I own the DVD, the book, and a large set of cups. You can buy a pouch from Gazzo as well as a set of his cups from either Gary Animal or RNT II, so anybody can copy him. Somebody once wrote that "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." It also downright stealing! The sad truth is that most buskers aren't, for the most part, copying Gazzo to make "fat hats." They actually want to BE him! They saw him get the audience reaction that they envision themselves getting, especially when the melon falls out of the Bowler! On the "Ever so Sleightly" forum, I believe it was, somebody came on wanting to know how Gazzo made the sound of air escaping from the tire on the wheelchair! Another was complaining that when they said the hat line: "Do you want change back from your nickle?" The person they asked said "Yes!"

Let's face it, Gazzo is Gazzo, and nobody else is going to be him. But they all want to be and that's why you see all of those copycats out there. Putting out a disclaimer like Gazzo did is not going to change anything. If he didn't want "copycats" he should have never released the material revealing how he did it all! We all steal/borrow/copy somebody else's material. There's not a soul on here that doesn't! It's what fits you and what you bring that makes it your own. Try explaining that to 95% of those performing poorly and you'll more than likely get a blank stare, slack jaw, and drool coming from the side of their mouth. However, as we used to say in the insurance business, "cream always rises to the top and let the dead wood drift!" The others will fail and keep getting slim hats while you and those like you who perform their own style/act/art, call it what you will, will stand out and be successful. I've seen it over and over again in different occupations. Happy Busking in Spain and fat hats to ya!

Sir Richard.
"In the land of Murphy there is but ONE law!"
magicalaurie
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Part of the problem, I'd say- in a slightly different fashion, if nothing else, than Sir Richard did Smile - is a new performer isn't necessarily going to understand that, when Gazzo says one can use the material and the lines and buy the pouch from him and get a set of Gazzo cups from Mr. Animal, he isn't including his mannerisms as part of the deal. Giving an earnest performer the benefit the doubt, I'd say Gazzo may have unwittingly misled them into performing as clones until they're able to transition into something else. And knowing there are professionals who do advocate copying as a way of learning, I'd suggest the Gazzo clones out there may very well be deserving of the benefit of the doubt in all of this.
"Every thought you think, word you speak, and action you take proceeds from either love or fear. Peace and upset, innocence and guilt, healing and illness all spring from that one fundamental choice." Alan Cohen
https://magicalaurieblog.wordpress.com/
jimmy talksalot
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Sir richard,

point taken.

I hope others will take mine for the sake of magic.

if your a magician then you should be able to make your own magic show.....no, really.

just think about how obvious that statement was, but folks are arguing against it.

every student I ever trained wanted me to teach them material, but I always forced them to make their own shows.....because I didn't think teaching them to copy a show would teach them to be original...duh.

the proof is that 90% of the guys out there are doing the same thing cups or striaght jacket hype show....mostly cups AND THEY ARE DOING IT COPY CAT.

few are even doing the over used stuff different.

even if you copied some poor guys street show that didn't do cups, you would still be more original than the 90%

even if you went out with a Svengali deck and a snapper and memorized the lines from the instructions.....

AT THIS POINT YOU WOULD STILL BE MORE ORIGINAL....than the 90%

money guys get this too, but they keep arguing with me, because they don't care about our art or even the quality of their work as long as it pays.

like children they'll say, well your not all that original either! or you don't care about the industry, your just insecure! or you don't know how to make money if you did you'd change your mind! or blah blah blah lie lie lie lie.

why don't they just come out and tell the truth about what kind of person they really are....then they'd finally get the respect from their peers that they have been seeking.

everyone respects a person who is good at making money, but don't expect a pat on the back if you don't put the same time into your product.

what worse is making excuses and name calling and false accusations.
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Infact the rest of us who don't do the cups could all just clone the same show and YEP! guess what?

we would still be more original than the guy doing the cups with the same sequence and patter.

because of the sheer numbers of them out there wow!
JoeJoe
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On 2012-09-03 02:31, magicalaurie wrote:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=4837882


Ahhh yes - December 17th, 2006 8:36pm - I was right, we already beat this horse to death!!!



Look ... there are two ways to have the tallest building on the block. One is to build the tallest building on the block. The second is to knock down all the other buildings. Complaining about clones is not going to do anything to actually make your building any taller than it already is!



-JoeJoe
Watch the Pilot Episode of my new TV Show:As Seen on TV: The JoeJoe Magic Show
Learn JoeJoe's secrets at Magic Joint dot com
jimmy talksalot
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Joe joe this ain't about me, or my career, it's about what we do.
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It's also about calling these guys on their c*** that their piling up everywhere in our industry, to brainwash new guys into their marketing scheme.
magicalaurie
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On 2012-09-03 13:58, jimmy talksalot wrote:
Sir richard,

point taken.

I hope others will take mine for the sake of magic.



jimmy,

I think others will gladly take your point, and have done so. I also think others will try to explain what they think may be a source of the issue you're focusing on. Doing one does not eliminate the other in this discussion.
"Every thought you think, word you speak, and action you take proceeds from either love or fear. Peace and upset, innocence and guilt, healing and illness all spring from that one fundamental choice." Alan Cohen
https://magicalaurieblog.wordpress.com/
Sir Richard
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On 2012-09-03 13:58, jimmy talksalot wrote:
Sir richard,

point taken.

I hope others will take mine for the sake of magic.

if your a magician then you should be able to make your own magic show.....no, really.

just think about how obvious that statement was, but folks are arguing against it.

every student I ever trained wanted me to teach them material, but I always forced them to make their own shows.....because I didn't think teaching them to copy a show would teach them to be original...duh.

the proof is that 90% of the guys out there are doing the same thing cups or striaght jacket hype show....mostly cups AND THEY ARE DOING IT COPY CAT.

few are even doing the over used stuff different.

even if you copied some poor guys street show that didn't do cups, you would still be more original than the 90%

even if you went out with a Svengali deck and a snapper and memorized the lines from the instructions.....

AT THIS POINT YOU WOULD STILL BE MORE ORIGINAL....than the 90%

money guys get this too, but they keep arguing with me, because they don't care about our art or even the quality of their work as long as it pays.

like children they'll say, well your not all that original either! or you don't care about the industry, your just insecure! or you don't know how to make money if you did you'd change your mind! or blah blah blah lie lie lie lie.

why don't they just come out and tell the truth about what kind of person they really are....then they'd finally get the respect from their peers that they have been seeking.

everyone respects a person who is good at making money, but don't expect a pat on the back if you don't put the same time into your product.

what worse is making excuses and name calling and false accusations.
Aww c'mon Jimmy! You know very well that a guy can make $400-$500 a year doing this! Smile

Sir Richard.
"In the land of Murphy there is but ONE law!"
djurmann
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Jimmytalksalot: why don't they just come out and tell the truth about what kind of person they really are....then they'd finally get the respect from their peers that they have been seeking.




Jimmy I may not like insult humour when used against the unsuspecting but I confess this type of reasoning p*sses me off too. It goes like this....."I know what kind of person you are better than you yourself do.....and until you agree with me you are a liar".

If you don't get the point I'll turn it around.

"Jimmy you are a just an insecure person picking on these poor Gazzo clones; you pick on them to bolster yourself not because you care about your "art" and until you admit it you are a liar. When you admit it you will at least get the respect from your peers that you have been seeking."

This is the same reasoning you are using against these guys.

Now do you think it is fair?

Fair is this: I can say I do not like insult humour, I can also say I would prefer to see more original routines, I can go further and say I believe your motivations are xyz.

Unfair is "your motives definitely are XYZ and unless you agree with me you are a liar!"

Danny
jimmy talksalot
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Wow, no that's not what I was saying, I would be mad too. lol

I think the confusion is that I was talking about two types I don't respect, money guys and their ugly cousin the clone, both guys seriously don't care about our artform, they are just in it for what ever they can grab.

so first of all, I didn't say I didn't like insult humur, I don't like to use it in my show, but I like to watch it if done correctly.

I can't respect clones who say they are original or pursuing some altruistic expression, they should just tell the truth, they do it for money.

some do as you've seen on this thread, and they are respected for their income.

secondly I was refering to accusations made of me and my friends that some of these money and clone guys knew wasn't true, but said it anyway to justify their case.

if you tell a lie about someone you know isn't true to try and tear them down, your a liar and so you know what kind of person you are.

thirdly if your doing it for money, then the type of person you are is not an artist, but a person who does it for money. so they should just say that, don't you think.

but usually that's not good enough for them they want to be patted on the back for having a great show too, well they aren't giving acadamey awards to late night infomercials just because they make good money.

I hope this cleared that up. honestly this is what I meant.
djurmann
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Fair 'nuff.

Danny
jimmy talksalot
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How do I know they do it for money, well by the tactics they use.

and they admit it to me in private all the time, but lie about it in public to folks less in-the-know about working fulltime on the streets.
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Sorry, you responded quick. my last comment was incase I still wasn't clear, but I guess you got me.
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Gary T.
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Hey Jimmy, mind if I copy your routine so that I can be original? just kidding just kidding. I've just been sort of stalking this thread with nothing intelligent to add, as I'm not really a street guy, mostly just a walk arround close up kind of performer.

anyway it's totally not relevant to the point of this thread but I thought I would entertain you with tales of my first (failed) attempt at busking. I say failed because while I had a lot of fun trying a new kind of performance, I didn't make any money.

where I live doesn't really have much of a place to perform, no real attractions or anything, but I tried some busking at my college friday. I set up in a section that, due to construction, at least 50% of the students pass through when they get to or leave the college, I set up in a large hallway because it was raining outside.

I started with a couple of card tricks because that's what I'm best at, to try to get people to stop, then went into spongeballs and into a couple rope tricks (because I only know quite litterally a couple) to draw more poeple in. then from there I went into cups and balls, trying my best not to clone Gazzo, but still using a couple of his less insulting jokes because they're just freaking good.

a lot of people were able to stop for just a trick or two but didn't have time to stay and watch the entire thing, but in the hour that I had to perform (was supposed to have like 2 1/2 but ran into problems getting ready) I did have one crowd of maybe 10 people, which went good till the verry end.

anyway I had a lot of fun but didn't make any $$ for probably a few reasons, for one I'm sure that the fact that people don't walk arround college looking to spend money comes in to play, but the biggest reason is I messed up the cups, kind of working on my routine still anyway, adding to it and trying to make it better, had to ditch the idea of pool balls for the final load because they talked against my cups and I couldn't shut em up, so I came up with the idea of a final load of sponge balls, seeing as I used them earlier in my show and I thought it would be fun if the popped back up, my biggest problem turned out to be that while it worked perfectly at home when I tried it, on the third one I loaded the not-so-smooth ball managed to catch friction on the edge of my cup and they saw it get loaded, they still loved the performance but I didn't get any tips. the basketball coach (I think it was basketball, the guys that knew him were just calling him coach) said something about having me perform at a game but I have no idea how that's supposed to work out, or if I'll even do it.

oh one last thing, Jimmy, I saw you on youtube quite some time ago and didn't realize it was you when I started reading this forum until your youtube videos were braught up, I'd just like to say that I'm deffinately a fan and your shows are incredibly entertaining haha.
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