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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » Magicians can't make magic shows anymore, because of the cups? (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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TheAmbitiousCard
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On 2012-09-05 17:22, FatHatter wrote:
Quote:
Who said anything about either of them not having good character when money was involved?
Who said that either one of them weren't good dudes?


I don't know...who?

It's fair to interpret "So when money is involved character, friendship, being a good dude to one another goes out the window?" as YOU DID.
Did I get it wrong? Should I not have thought that?
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Sir Richard
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On 2012-09-05 18:49, Gary T. wrote:
I know I'm new here, and for that matter younger than pretty much everybody, but I think everybody should really just drop all of this business about the relationship between Kozmo and Cellini, the irrelevance to this thread is only of the problem, I didn't know Cellini but just from what's been posted here I know he's not alive anymore. Now I'm not saying anybody was intentionally saying anything wrong, but if you didn't know the man, and as such don't know anythng about what went on between the two of them, then by jumping in, making assumptions, and talking about things that you're not a part of, you're being disrespectful to the dead. lets steer this thread back onto topic and all agree to leave Cellini and his memory to rest in peace shall we?


While I understand your point, I think that you should understand that Cellini could probably be called the "Guru of Busking!" Yes he's gone, but the legend lives on through his teaching and DVDs. All of those on here that have been considered experts at Busking; Gazzo, Jimmy, Kozmo, just to name a few; have been taught by Cellini in one way or another. The man was superb at getting "fat hats!" That's the nub of the thread now. How important is the money? And in that, Cellini prospered! I still remember his "hat lines" he shared with me back in '79! Sheer genius!

Sir Richard.
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RobertSmith
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On 2012-09-05 19:32, Sir Richard wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-09-05 18:49, Gary T. wrote:
I know I'm new here, and for that matter younger than pretty much everybody, but I think everybody should really just drop all of this business about the relationship between Kozmo and Cellini, the irrelevance to this thread is only of the problem, I didn't know Cellini but just from what's been posted here I know he's not alive anymore. Now I'm not saying anybody was intentionally saying anything wrong, but if you didn't know the man, and as such don't know anythng about what went on between the two of them, then by jumping in, making assumptions, and talking about things that you're not a part of, you're being disrespectful to the dead. lets steer this thread back onto topic and all agree to leave Cellini and his memory to rest in peace shall we?


While I understand your point, I think that you should understand that Cellini could probably be called the "Guru of Busking!" Yes he's gone, but the legend lives on through his teaching and DVDs. All of those on here that have been considered experts at Busking; Gazzo, Jimmy, Kozmo, just to name a few; have been taught by Cellini in one way or another. The man was superb at getting "fat hats!" That's the nub of the thread now. How important is the money? And in that, Cellini prospered! I still remember his "hat lines" he shared with me back in '79! Sheer genius!

Sir Richard.


What are the requirements for, 'expert' status as a busker?
TheAmbitiousCard
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When you're doing your own act, you're an artist, be it good or bad.
When you're doing someone else's act, you're a hack.

When you're doing something in between, well, you're kinda in between.

IMO, It seems impossible to NOT eventually be doing your own act.
Your environment, your history, your audiences, your skills, your personality all naturally transform anything you do into something different/unique/better. When you add confidence, character, interest and curiosity, the sooner the unique act will develop.

In closing...
Gazzo does the cups. Nobody seems to criticize him for that.
I don't think money has anything to do with it.
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djurmann
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Quote:
On 2012-09-06 01:15, Frank Starsini wrote:
When you're doing your own act, you're an artist, be it good or bad.



Hurray I'm an artist! Shame my hats suck though! Smile
Gary T.
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Quote:
On 2012-09-05 19:32, Sir Richard wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-09-05 18:49, Gary T. wrote:
I know I'm new here, and for that matter younger than pretty much everybody, but I think everybody should really just drop all of this business about the relationship between Kozmo and Cellini, the irrelevance to this thread is only of the problem, I didn't know Cellini but just from what's been posted here I know he's not alive anymore. Now I'm not saying anybody was intentionally saying anything wrong, but if you didn't know the man, and as such don't know anythng about what went on between the two of them, then by jumping in, making assumptions, and talking about things that you're not a part of, you're being disrespectful to the dead. lets steer this thread back onto topic and all agree to leave Cellini and his memory to rest in peace shall we?


While I understand your point, I think that you should understand that Cellini could probably be called the "Guru of Busking!" Yes he's gone, but the legend lives on through his teaching and DVDs. All of those on here that have been considered experts at Busking; Gazzo, Jimmy, Kozmo, just to name a few; have been taught by Cellini in one way or another. The man was superb at getting "fat hats!" That's the nub of the thread now. How important is the money? And in that, Cellini prospered! I still remember his "hat lines" he shared with me back in '79! Sheer genius!

Sir Richard.


right, well I'm not gonna pretend I knew all of that being the noob I am. I just didn't like hearing people who weren't a part of it argue over logistics of why somebody had a disagreement with him. which seems to have ended anyway, so I'm happy. he is relevant, his legend and teachings are relevant, but the argueing became unneeded really fast haha.
FatHatter
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Quote:
Frank Starsini wrote:

It's fair to interpret "So when money is involved character, friendship, being a good dude to one another goes out the window?" as YOU DID.
Did I get it wrong? Should I not have thought that?


Although the sentence you wrote makes no sense as read, anger will do that, I get your point and yes it was a fair interpretation.
Lets review: Cellini & Kozmo had a falling out over a business deal and when Kozmo brings it up to support something it's cool but when I ask a question it becomes the equivalent of passing gas in church.
imgic
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I apologize all...I should have PM'ed Fathatter instead of derailing art vs. money points(along with all the other interesting subplots).

Since it appears Jimmy and Kozmo are taking breaks from this thread, and Fathatter seems insistant on finding out more...would suggest Fathatter try PM's to satisfy his curiousity and let this thread return to it's original discussion...
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
imgic
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Quote:
On 2012-09-06 01:15, Frank Starsini wrote:

IMO, It seems impossible to NOT eventually be doing your own act.
Your environment, your history, your audiences, your skills, your personality all naturally transform anything you do into something different/unique/better. When you add confidence, character, interest and curiosity, the sooner the unique act will develop.



Spot On! I don't think anyone can perform a trick for any time withuot it morphing into own. One of the first tricks I learned was C&R rope...when I first did it, I pretty much did it move by move and used all the lines as my teacher had showed me. Over the years I've added, deleted, and tweaked the routine until it's no longer recongizable as that first time.

Oh crap...does that make me an artist?
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
Sir Richard
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On 2012-09-05 20:34, RobertSmith wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-09-05 19:32, Sir Richard wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-09-05 18:49, Gary T. wrote:
I know I'm new here, and for that matter younger than pretty much everybody, but I think everybody should really just drop all of this business about the relationship between Kozmo and Cellini, the irrelevance to this thread is only of the problem, I didn't know Cellini but just from what's been posted here I know he's not alive anymore. Now I'm not saying anybody was intentionally saying anything wrong, but if you didn't know the man, and as such don't know anythng about what went on between the two of them, then by jumping in, making assumptions, and talking about things that you're not a part of, you're being disrespectful to the dead. lets steer this thread back onto topic and all agree to leave Cellini and his memory to rest in peace shall we?


While I understand your point, I think that you should understand that Cellini could probably be called the "Guru of Busking!" Yes he's gone, but the legend lives on through his teaching and DVDs. All of those on here that have been considered experts at Busking; Gazzo, Jimmy, Kozmo, just to name a few; have been taught by Cellini in one way or another. The man was superb at getting "fat hats!" That's the nub of the thread now. How important is the money? And in that, Cellini prospered! I still remember his "hat lines" he shared with me back in '79! Sheer genius!

Sir Richard.


What are the requirements for, 'expert' status as a busker?
IMO it's the ability to constantly make a decent living Busking, to have Newbies to the Busking arena come to you desiring to be your students, and so on.

Sir Richard.
"In the land of Murphy there is but ONE law!"
Devious
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This entire thread was an excersize in futility!
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ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2012-09-06 02:45, djurmann wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-09-06 01:15, Frank Starsini wrote:
When you're doing your own act, you're an artist, be it good or bad.



Hurray I'm an artist! Shame my hats suck though! Smile


Amen brother!
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TheAmbitiousCard
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On 2012-09-06 10:56, FatHatter wrote:

Although the sentence you wrote makes no sense as read, anger will do that, I get your point and yes it was a fair interpretation.

I suppose anger could do that. Nice try, but calling someone angry is just common ploy of any internet troll. Nothing new there.
In this case, however, it wasn't anger. It was purpously repeating your original sentence structure that did the trick in making it hard to read.

Quote:
Lets review: Cellini & Kozmo had a falling out over a business deal and when Kozmo brings it up to support something it's cool but when I ask a question it becomes the equivalent of passing gas in church.

You didn't really "just" ask a question, did you?
What you really did was to jump to conclusions and basically accuse someone of certain behaviours and wrap it in the form of a rhetorical question. Again, nice try. So, no, unless you purposly fart in church just to cause a commotion, I would say they are not equivalent.


Perhaps you should re-read Kozmo's post about his feelings for Cellini and how it ended.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. I think if you re-read that post, you'll feel differently.
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FatHatter
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Kozmo wrote:
Cellini was one of the greatest gifts I have ever been given. However we didn't end good. It was a business thing and it just sucked. But I loved Cellini to the day he died and I miss him to this day. It's my greatest regret that I didn't fix it.

But cellini was a gypsy and truly didn't get the world. He taught me a lot. But the biggest lesson was how to be free. If in fact Cellini said things about me to you it was out of
Frustration. Which I understand.

Bu I'm confident in the meaning of that statement...there's no art without money. I know this for a fact......


"It's my greatest regret that I didn't fix it."

This stood out and is the base of my question. If you can fix something and don't then there is regret.



This isn't a contest for me Frank. There are no points awarded no prize won.
That being said...

I didn't call you angry, said anger will do that, and it will. Could also make one make no sense.

Mine: It's fair to interpret, "However we didn't end good. It was a business thing and it just sucked." as money got between us.
Did I get it wrong? Should I not have thought that?

Yours: It's fair to interpret "So when money is involved character, friendship, being a good dude to one another goes out the window?" as YOU DID.
Did I get it wrong? Should I not have thought that?

I examined Kozmos sentence and compared/interpreted it to "money got between us".
You examined my sentence and then compared/interpreted it to my sentence. WTF?

Yes I did ask a question. Simple one too. Surprised it's caused such a deal. There is a lot going on that I am not aware of. Clearly no one wants to enlighten the masses. You never know unless you ask so I did my part. I'm going to guess that those giving me the business for asking know more than most. The clam up is a mystery.


"Someone posted something that I don't like. They are trying to cause a commotion! Bunch of trolls."
TheAmbitiousCard
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I think I understand.

Anyway...
I'm pretty sure what you consider a "clam up" is basically people just not wanting to go to a level of detail that is nobody else's business and likely inappropriate in a public forum.
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imgic
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On 2012-09-06 13:08, Devious wrote:
This entire thread was an excersize in futility!


I'd disagree. The parts about art vs money, annoyance of clones, and starting by imitating but growing into your own act...all the types of conversations I love to have with fellow magicians (though usually better with a few beers!). In addition:
- got some insight from Jimmy and Kozmo and other experienced performers: always useful to a part time wannabe such as myself
- found out Devois "knows some things too"
- discovered fathatter's character
- reaffirmed that Frank is a stand up guy

Given the 12 pages I'm sure I missed some points, but overall it's given hours of amusement.
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RobertSmith
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On 2012-09-08 12:06, imgic wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-09-06 13:08, Devious wrote:
This entire thread was an excersize in futility!


I'd disagree. The parts about art vs money, annoyance of clones, and starting by imitating but growing into your own act...all the types of conversations I love to have with fellow magicians (though usually better with a few beers!). In addition:
- got some insight from Jimmy and Kozmo and other experienced performers: always useful to a part time wannabe such as myself
- found out Devois "knows some things too"
- discovered fathatter's character
- reaffirmed that Frank is a stand up guy

Given the 12 pages I'm sure I missed some points, but overall it's given hours of amusement.


All that and you forgot the best part of the thread.
FatHatter
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imgic wrote:

- discovered fathatter's character



Now I know that's not a shot, no way that could be a shot.
You're commenting on me being a want to know kinda guy. The kind of guy that doesn't let others perception about what is and isn't socially acceptable get in the way of asking a straightforward question. The kind of question others think to ask but don't act on. That's it right? That's what I thought. No way a shot. No way.
imgic
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No shot...I didn't attribute any positive or negative to the comment. It's just the first thread you've been contributing to, and so others are learning about you. It's up to each individual how they feel about you.
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imgic
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On 2012-09-08 20:10, RobertSmith wrote:
All that and you forgot the best part of the thread.


I knew I'd miss something! What was it?
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
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