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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » Magicians can't make magic shows anymore, because of the cups? (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Devious
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Quote:
On 2012-08-23 14:58, jimmy talksalot wrote:
right now I'm working out a sponge ball routine,

Here are two of my friends working out a new sponge ball routine.
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jimmy talksalot
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Scotty,

what about all the guys who are not doing the cups on the street and are not even starting out with the cups?

I have students who never even did the cups and are working full time. why isn't that natural?

they didn't have a problem learning the streets or learning magic, infact they are way more versitile, because if you tell them, ok take this or that out of your act, it's no problem for them...tell a cups guy he can't do cups and watch him crumble.
Devious
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Yup, watch them crumble, but first watch my spongeball!
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jimmy talksalot
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It's the wise performer who can carry a deck of cards, some coins, some sponge balls, and a thumb.

like I said, about gary animal he showed up with just his talent and went to the 1 euro store and picked up props for his magic. that's a magician.
Scotty Walsh
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Your students are lucky to have you, Jimmy. Some people just have a DVD.

You've got to accept it. Cups and Balls with the Oranges and the Melon is the Hippity Hop Rabbits of our generation. It's a better trick than Hippity Hop Rabbits. HH Rabbits came with patter and presentation, too, and everyone copied it.

You say, "magicians can't make magic shows anymore, because of the cups?" But 30 years ago, maybe you could have said, "magicians can't make magic shows anymore, because of the Hippity Hop Rabbits." Or because of the Rings.

Also, these guys used to do a show and no one had to know about it. Now, with Facebook and our world traveling and whatnot, we know what everyone else is doing.

You know, Jimmy, I've never disagreed with a word you've said, and I'm not now. Just saying that cookie cutter hack magic is as old as the art. Some people are fountains of creativity like you. Some people are late blooming sponges, like me. For some, it is a never ending journey to be creative. And some never even try.

Anyhow, not doing the cups is pretty smart. You can be lots different than the pack and you don't have to haul around a table and a melon. I agree with you, I just understand where these guys are coming from. We were bad once, too.... Or, were we?!
FatHatter
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It's the difference between chef & cook but we call em both Magician.
A cook can open a can & follow a recipe.
A chef can gather ingredients and construct heaven.

It's not difficult to create a routine with C&B's, rope, cards, silks, etc.
Some do find it difficult to want to though.
I really do wish that content expressing how oh so hard it is would cease.
Great thinkers have put together wonderful routines but that didn't happen first shot.
It's a process and that doesn't mean that it's difficult, it does mean you have to put in effort.
I guess what I would really like is for there not to be such a huge market for "turnkey" magic but that's not gonna happen.
Devious
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jimmy talksalot
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Fellahs I hear what your sayin

Posted: Aug 23, 2012 4:31pm
Miss you devious, hows roger?
Sir Richard
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Quote:
On 2012-08-23 13:00, jimmy talksalot wrote:
Oh and by the way, Max Maven, Lance Burton, Mac King, Ben Ulin all became succesful for doing there own shows, not coping someone elses. lol

your irish?

I'm in ireland right now and I love it wow.
I remember talking to Ben Ulin, he did our club's Christmas party a few years back. I told him how embarrassed I was doing the Rub-a-dub-dub routine. He said "Why? That's a classic that hardly anybody's doing...and it needs to be dusted off and done!" When I bought the Phoenix cups from Tom Franks I told him basically the same thing...I mean look at the size of the final loads! Golf balls for crying out loud! Tom told me that there's nothing wrong with doing that routine, it holds it's own and it's a classic!

So you're in Ireland huh! My niece visited there a while back and loved it! If I ever run into you I promise not to do any cups & balls, but I got some Irish jokes I'll share with you! And finally, my show is definitely a "work in progress," however it's still a show, and I haven't had a bad audience yet! Have a pint of stout on me!

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solrak29
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Quote:
On 2012-08-23 13:00, jimmy talksalot wrote:
I'm in ireland right now and I love it wow.

I heard that there is the 'Arse' Festival that will be occurring
soon in Gallway (spelling) and it's a known spot for street
performers.

I heard about this from a nice couple who were from that part
of Ireland. They stayed after the show to tell me all about it
when I was working the pitch earlier this year. I also
confirmed the festival with my better half who has family over
there.
Quote:
On 2012-08-23 13:00, jimmy talksalot wrote:
I'm in ireland right now and I love it wow.

I'll be looking to get out there next year must be really
nice out there.
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writeall
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Maybe people who are creative and talented find it easy to be creative and talented. I've never invented a trick worth two bits. The only thing out of the box for me is a whole lotta "sucks."

And then there are cover bands.
FatHatter
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You don't need to invent a trick.
You don't need to cover someone else's trick.
All you need to do is create a presentation.
This is going to be a good thing because it's going to be from you, for you, by you.
That's a lot of you and that's good. You are the best you you can be.
Do you believe in yourself? I believe in you too! (thanks Lou Holtz!)
Then when you perform your epic rendition of lets say the ancient C&B's and it falls flat on it's face you have made the first step to greatness, failure.

Think of the magic as the instrument and you play it. You can use the same instrument as someone else but you aren't going to play the way they do cause theys them and youse you. Write your own arraignments.
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G'day Mr Fat Hatter

I saw this thread the other day and have only just now had a chance to read through it.

I like how you made your point Mr Fat Hatter.

Jimmy - thank you for instigating this discussion. I went to FISM in July and then my wife and I traveled in a campervan through Ireland and the UK before taking the train through Europe. Right now we are ready to head back to Oz after a week in Indonesia surfing and relaxing as well as some magic performances for the locals.

Bob Latta aka (Tropp Bob)
JoeJoe
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I thought we had already beat this horse to death?? Ultimately Jimmy ... the problem is that people have different opinions on what a "magician" actually is.

It seems to me that most magicians see a magician as a character from the 1800's in top hat and tails pulling rabbits from a hat. Generally, their tricks are more "store bought".

Then there are those of us who go back further in time, and see a magician as a traveling stranger from the dark ages that goes from town to town performing in the markets, the pubs, and right out on the sidewalk ... often discreet because he doesn't want to get burned at the stake. There were no magic shops, thus he had to create his own magic.

I don't think either type of magician is going to convince the other that their side of the fence has greener grass. I've just learned to live with it. My success is based on what I do ... not on what anyone else does.

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jimmy talksalot
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No joe joe I'm sayin worse yet, there's a third guy now.

there's a guy who thinks magicians are joke and copies gazzo's routine and comes out to the street.

joe joe, the fact is that most indoor magicians create to some degree at least making an original presentation for a classic routine.

at this point I would love it if some guy with a top hat and store bought tricks came out and did his thing.

at least I'd get to some old classics instead of the cups and balls counted I,II,III

no, I pine for the day that some magicians were just corny, but now we got money guys teaching clones to do circle shows and to blow out pitches with super loud amps and hound people for money, then they turn into clones who teach new clones etc.

no joe we let the money guys in and now they've brought in their ugly cousin.

Posted: Aug 24, 2012 12:43am
I know I'm wasting my time here. but I thought maybe one new guy might say, "hey you know wow I can look at this as an artform."
Zombie Magic
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Quote:
On 2012-08-24 00:28, jimmy talksalot wrote:
there's a guy who thinks magicians are joke and copies gazzo's routine and comes out to the street.



Jimmy, someone dedicated to "the art" of magic but has never busked and goes out, is on a big learning curve. How could someone that thinks magicians are a joke, learn the cups and balls and go out and make money?

I'm having trouble connecting the dots. If someone thinks stand up comedy is a breeze, learns ( takes ) jokes that they've heard other comics do and takes the stage, they will fail. Not so much that the audience knows they aren't original, but it takes years to get good at it. Timing, etc.

Thanks for helping me understand.
jimmy talksalot
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They only respect the work it takes to get it so they can make money, they have no idea that there is more to it then a "trick" and a "money making system", if you try and tell them there is something more important to a magician than that, they will start mocking you and the other magicians.

this is the problem with mass distrubution of magic products, it attracts people with very narrow, limited and base, thinking, who think magic is a hustle.

it's sort of like saying, "well I married her and bought her a house, but she's not really a person, but hey I respect her cuz I bought the house so get off my back."

now the smart clones get it, like the head clone in covent garden, he comes right out and says it's all about the money and magicians are joke.

SIMPLY,

copying takes away from any respect for any of it you may say you have....actions are louder than words.

smart clones realize this and just embrace it.

Posted: Aug 24, 2012 4:28am Reply with quote Send a Private Message View Profile of jimmy talksalot Edit/Delete This Post Report this post to forum moderator View Posters IP (Moderators/Admins Only)
The problem I think is that if you are not a person really cursed with the magic bug you don't get it.

I mean most everyone wants to learn a trick or two, but someone bit by the bug is an artist or a fanatic call it what you will.

anyway,

I'm goona stop writing now because I'm starting to get the destinct impression that I am a minority opinion here and that the topic maybe flying over some heads making me look like a madman.

Posted: Aug 24, 2012 4:46am
And some of the questions are flying over my head lol
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2012-08-23 15:22, jimmy talksalot wrote:
Ed you said; "I would come off as Ed Wood Jr. who also wrote his own material."

that's a good thing.


Have you ever sat through an Ed Wood Jr. film?
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
Eduardo
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Hoooo Boy... if this post is funny... ROTFL as they say in internet... and better with a mix of good thougths...
Cups are the most magical routine EVER... if one understand the cups will understand what is real magic... its like the symbol of magic... like the horse to the ferrari... next week I will go outdoors without cups... kinda of Jimmy test...
Payne
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Quote:
On 2012-08-24 00:28, jimmy talksalot wrote:

joe joe, the fact is that most indoor magicians create to some degree at least making an original presentation for a classic routine.



Don't see many "indoor magicians" do ya. Smile

You're lament isn't reserved for the street worker. It's a problem in virtually every aspect of magic. Each genre has it's hacks. Performers who only put tricks in their acts because they saw another magician do it in theirs. They also end up performing it in the exact same way, not because they are lazy or uncreative. But because it just has never occurred to them that there might be another way to do the trick. Mostly because they are surrounded by magicians doing the exact same thing.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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