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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » Magicians can't make magic shows anymore, because of the cups? (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Legerdemaniac
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Thanks Jimmy for this post that freed me from a weird mental grip I have been under. I'm a "new guy" to the street, but most definitely bit by the bug and doing it because it's what I want to do, but there is some strange compulsion with the Cups & Balls, I have never done them before in ten years performing but the moment I made the decision to perform on the street I began putting a routine together, not Gazzo's, I was trying to be original, but I didn't enjoy it, I've never liked the effect, all the lines I was coming up with for it felt wasted and better for other stuff, yet still I pushed on like some mental programming was forcing me to close a street act with the cups.

After reading this thread through I am freed, I'll polish off the routine for future usage, maybe use it as a middle once or twice if a situation calls for it, but I'll close with something else from now on (even though every idea so far has died on it's arse).

That oughta make you happy and soothe the ranting beast inside at least Jimmy Smile I don't think you are in the minority here at all, a few have debated with you as is the nature of the internet, if the others who agreed all chimed in this would be a long boring thread, apart from being an interesting study in how many different ways "I agree" could be typed.
TRUMPETMAN
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Master Payne speaks the truth.

One fellow in my neck of the woods went as far as to come to one of my dear friend's shows,(my friend is a consumate worker) stood in the back, video taped the whole thing, then went out and bought the entire show lock, stock, prop, and barrel. He stole practically every line from my bud's script. If that wasn't enough, he then scanned some of the content from an iconic, currently published magic book, turned it into his own BOR sales tool, and openly sold a kit to "do it yourself" to other magicians.

Needless to say, when my friend found out his show was being done (poorly) by this guy, he called the punk on stealing his show. Nothing could make the jerk stop.

When the author of the previously mentioned magic tome found out what this punk had done, he sent lawyers after him. Believe it or not, the punk in question has found a home now with the "sell more shows" workshop crowd, and continues to make a living by selling what others created, claiming it as his own.

There is no limit to the amount of theft that occurs in the house of magic, it seems, and no limit to the amount of people waiting to step up and do the same, over, and over, and over....
Mark Pettey
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Sir Richard
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I think I see the problem here. 1st off, I'm not a Busker, so Jimmy, in all likelihood, won't ever see me perform. I'm also NOT a "Gazzo clone!" I suspect that Jimmy has seen many a newcomer to magic try to imitate Gazzo, and fail miserably. That's like all the Elvis impersonators out there trying to imitate the one and only King! Gazzo is an experienced actor as well as a top flight magician! He also has that "cute" little English accent that American audiences love! I'm into comedy magic, and I'm very good at it! People love how I do C & B and I'm NOT quitting because somebody might think it's not art! I really don't care. And yes, I'm out to make money, what's wrong with that?

Sir Richard.
"In the land of Murphy there is but ONE law!"
Devious
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Here is Ricky Jay when he was told by Abe Lincoln that folks didn't like his cups routine,
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jimmy talksalot
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I never liked lincoln and always loved ricky jays cup routine. his tribute history lesson is wonderful.

lincoln on the other hand, well lets just say I didn't like his work in the south, maybe he was popular with the nothern audiences, but he bombed in the south know what I mean.

and the jokes don't get any better....

and payne....point taken...ouch.

I laughed out loud when I read it. I guess I've forgotten how awful they can be at the clubs.

and trumpetman....wow! what a nightmare! guess I should count my blessings....but I'm sure we'll be seeing that hack on the front cover of one of our industrie's magazines soon, telling us how to do magic the right way.

it's our own fault we let em in and rally behind them and call them authorities in there field.

we say things like, "well if you want to make money...."

the old timers tell me it was a heck of a lot harder to break into our business if you were a hack like that in the very olden days, not to say they didn't have them, it was just seriously less and insignificant.
TheAmbitiousCard
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One mistake magicians make is thinking that their spectators see magic all the time. I can tell this because of their posts like...

"don't do that line. everybody's heard it."
"don't do the cups. everybody's seen it."
"don't use a TT, everybody knows how it's done".
"don't say blah, it's a cliche'd line"
"don't do the cups, it's been revealed on TV"

The fact is, most people have never seen anyone besides a friend/family member do magic, and even fewer have ever seen anyone do it well; especially to the
point of remembering anything about it.

The fact is, rarely does anyone know how anything is done. Especially when performed well, it looks nothing like they imagine, except when a hack does it.
Case in point.. Does anyone REALLY steal a TT the "old" way anymore? The way a spectator might notice? Of course not. Right?

So, if you want to do the cups, do the cups. That's why I do it. I like doing it. Of course, I liked it a lot better and performed it a lot better once I developed my own routine.

Why does everyone do the cups:
It's recognizable from a distance and draws attention.
It makes noise, if you wish.
It's been time tested as a great trick.
Few can think of a better closer.

Why do so many do Gazzo's routine (if that's even true. I really don't know. I don't see street magicians) ?
Magicians copy something that works until they figure out what works better for them.
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jimmy talksalot
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Eduardo,

I love the cups too, that's why I'm going crazy here. the cups are a brilliant tool, poetry when done right.

the greatest things is all the different equations and combinations that can be worked out. THAT NOBODY IS WORKING OUT ANYMORE!

lol

it's a great trick.

but alright already, know what I mean.

the 17 trillion other tricks in magic might be pretty good too you know.

thanks and please tell me how it goes and thanks for being so patient with me.

Posted: Aug 24, 2012 2:43pm
Frank,

I travel quite a bit and see a lot of magicians and I also get a lot of them sending me footage on youtube of their act and I promise you it's what I'm telling you.

gary animal last week told me he woukld watch a slew of magicians que up and after a few shows the audience would start yelling out the next sequence.

I have also seen this.

when I was in colorado, not only did I see a the gazzo routine, I SAW KIDS IN RESTERUANTS AT THE PITCH at the same time DOING CUPS AND BALLS FOR THEIR FAMILIES. really

in covent garden I actually saw 12 guys fighting over magic corner to do gazzos routine.

if there's a pitch and there's magicians working a pitch I promise you there's a guy doing the cups like gazzo.

the thing is even if the audience has not seen it, why should everyone be doing it? I mean like gazzo.

WHY CAN'T MAGICIANS CREATE THEIR OWN MAGIC SHOW ISN'T THAT WHAT MAGICIANS DO.

of course I'm ranting and frank I consider you a friend so please don't take this to heart..i'm just a little overwhelmed by what I'm seeing on the road and all the guys who caontact me and tell me the expert money guys told them to do this. this happens when ever I check my mail...or work a pitch.
Devious
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jimmy talksalot
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Infact I've kept it bottled up for 5 years now and have tried not to go on the net, but everyone keeps tellin these beginners, "well if you wanna make money" "or hey nothings original." or "it's already tried and true, don't fix it if it's not broken."

and there goes another clone off the assembly line.

don't make me gather all the clones youtube footage from around the world and post it here, it's prolific to biblical proportions.

sorry I'm frustrated.

thanks for puttin up with me.
Zombie Magic
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I could understand if people went out on the street with a Svengali deck, a paddle trick, Rocky Raccoon,etc. and were making great money, but having no interest in magic, low opinion of magicians, etc.

But learning the cups and balls has me baffled. Many magicians that love magic don't care for the trick. Someone that has no interest in magic and is just learning tricks for the street could pick far easier tricks than the cups.
TheAmbitiousCard
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You'd know a lot better than me, Jimmy.

My act is my own act. I don't close with the cups.
I use my own opener, closer, I write my own scripts and don't copy anybody.
I still use the classics but all in my own way that works for me.
I got a lot better when I had the guts to start doing that.

I can relate this way...
I was shocked when a few months ago I went to the magic castle and one of the stage guys just did
a few store bought tricks and closed with The Lemon Game, complete with out-of-the-box patter. O.M.G.
Don't get me wrong, TLG is a great trick, but.... at the magic castle? seriously?

He didn't connect with the audience much; just up there reciting lines.


BTW, I owe you money.
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djurmann
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You know pretty much everyone on this thread is saying the same thing:

"It's not the song it's the singer". Some people put their own twist on an old song and make it personal, some people do covers

And for people who only do cover versions they are saying" hey I make good money doing covers".There are two regular magician's in Covent Garden, one did Gazzos routine, now they both do...but they both do OK.

There's room for both. Whit Haydn recommends new magician's follow an established routine when they begin, word for word..to learn what makes a good routine. Eugene Burger says you should plough your own furrow. You decide what works for you.

Danny

Posted: Aug 24, 2012 3:47pm
Thought for the day. You create a presentation....it is a part of you, you like it and perform it three times on the same street corner. it bombs every time.

Do you change the act or change the audience?

Danny
jimmy talksalot
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What?
Devious
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When it come so material that the magician has created,
John Calvert said this to me before he left,
"An amateur constantly changes his show, a Pro changes his audience."
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jimmy talksalot
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.
Devious
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To clarify my post about what John Calvert said to me,
He meant that if you have created a magic piece of art and it comes from your heart,
Stay the artist and find an audience who will appreciate it, for what it is.
Don't "sell out" for the sake of a buck or a pat on the back.
Devious Deceptions
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Eduardo
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Quote:
On 2012-08-24 14:30, jimmy talksalot wrote:
Eduardo,

I love the cups too, that's why I'm going crazy here. the cups are a brilliant tool, poetry when done right.

the greatest things is all the different equations and combinations that can be worked out....THAT NOBODY IS WORKING OUT ANYMORE!

lol

it's a great trick...

but alright already, know what I mean.

the 17 trillion other tricks in magic might be pretty good too you know.

thanks and please tell me how it goes and thanks for being so patient with me.


your welcome, maybe I send you a video in private... jajajajaja... by the way I meet one welsh old fellow (TAFFY as you call him) of you in Portugal by the easter time... great talk, and great guy...
jimmy talksalot
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Wow,

you met taff super guy, I did a write up on him in the who's who of sidewalkperformers blog;

http://sidewalkperformerswhoswho.blogspo......ffy.html

Posted: Aug 24, 2012 4:52pm
I would love to watch the footaqe of you, thank you so much.

Posted: Aug 24, 2012 4:53pm
Devious,

great points and thanks for spelling it out for me. lol

I'm havin trouble understanding some of the posts.
Zombie Magic
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Ever see Beatle tribute bands/shows? They are fantastic musicians, but they each lack that special something that makes writers of hit songs, etc. They earn an honest living, audiences love it, etc.

MANY musicians look down on them. Why? Why should they even care what what they're doing? They'll give you reasons. But why even spend the energy thinking that way.
Do what you love, ignore everyone else.

When David Blaine had his first TV special and became a world wide phenom, MANY magicians slammed him because he was doing magic store tricks.

Want to be original, unique? Great. Someone sells their act on a dvd or book and you want to do it, go ahead. They gave the blessing when they sold it. Not everyone can be Paul McCartney or David Copperfield. Some people are stars, some can't be. If everyone was a millionaire, who would pick up the trash?

Just some food for thought from the sidelines of a former trash collector;-)
Eduardo
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Copying is a natural way of the learning process. don't blame the clones. painters and other artists for centuries copied their masters. and it take time to find themselves, sometimes they never find themselves.
Blame those shepherds who give bad learning materials such as dvds to their lambs, and worst, gave this materials to the penguins.

Quote:
On 2012-08-24 16:50, jimmy talksalot wrote:
Wow,

you met taff super guy, I did a write up on him in the who's who of sidewalkperformers blog;

http://sidewalkperformerswhoswho.blogspo......ffy.html

ya. I read it. I read all your blog Jimmy and book. you rock.
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