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BarryFernelius
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Quote:
On 2012-09-02 18:20, magicman491 wrote:
Do you guys personally think that aronsons or Tamarizs built in effects are better?
Also is joyal easier to memorize?


Aronson's and Tamariz's built in effects are different from each other. The two magicians have different interests. If you like Simon Aronson's thinking, you'll probably prefer his effects. If you like Tamariz's style (or if you want to end in European new deck order), you'll prefer his effects. Is one set of effects inherently better? Probably not.

Is Joyal easier to memorize? For some people, yes. For others, not so much. You probably have the brain power required to memorize any of the stacks that you mentioned.

Just don't spend more time analyzing the problem than it would take you to memorize the deck...
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."

-Leonard Bernstein
ddyment
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A very tiny correction to Barry's otherwise exemplary post ... he stated:
Quote:
Joyal's methodology is specific to his stack.

In fact, Joyal's rule-based technique has been used to develop other stacks (though they are admittedly not widely known).

My own favourite of these is Chris Matt's "Six Kicks" stack, which I think is easier to learn than the Joyal version (it has one fewer rule, and I find the rules a bit more memorable, though this is admittedly a personal thing).
"Calculated Thoughts" is available at Vanishing Inc. and The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
Martin Joyal
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A memorized deck is a tool. The main goal in mastering such a tool is to perform tricks that will delight and amaze your audience.

There are many powered tools that will allow you to build a wall. Some brands offer stronger tools, some offer more precision, some give importance to weight and noise, etc. Whether you use a Makita, a Dewalt or a Bosch circular saw won't change much in the wall you will build. Once the wall built, it is the painting and decoration you will add that people will notice.

The same is true for the stack you will choose to learn and use. The stack itself won't change much in your capacity to perform miracles. However, the tricks you will perform is what will catch attention of your audience and will bring astonishment.

Martin
http://www.joyalstack.com/
magicman491
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In bound to please... Does Simon give you tips and ways to learn his stack easier, or does he just give you the order and you need to learn them...
Am I better off learning the stack on his website or buying his books for tips to learn it?
Thanks
hdejong
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If I recall right (I read his book a few years ago at a library) Simon does give a system using mnemonic pegs to memorize the deck in Bound to Please. This is a classic mnemonic system (that is fun to learn in its own right). Harry Lorayne's memory book goes into a lot of detail using this basic system that is applicable not just to cards but to remembering very long numbers, lists of objects, etc. I used to use this system for exams.

Everyone's brain is different. I am much better at math/science than English, therefore for me stacks that use a formula or rule based approach are much easier for me to learn. For other people, using a peg system is easier. Others take a deck of cards, write the stack number on the back of each card with a marker then memorize it using pure rote. Tamariz has an interesting method that is more visual/auditory. Or you can combine methods.

Regardless of which stack you learn (you should get started!!!) Aronson's books are all very good.
JanForster
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Quote:
On 2012-09-03 01:41, magicman491 wrote:
In bound to please... Does Simon give you tips and ways to learn his stack easier, or does he just give you the order and you need to learn them...
Am I better off learning the stack on his website or buying his books for tips to learn it?
Thanks

Simon Aronson provides an elaborated system for learning his stack, you even could use it as a starting point to learn your own stack. I am German and used Aronson's system with great success (and fun). I even created a German system using his system with German words (of course) to help friends. There were happy and succeeded ... You will too. Jan
Jan Forster
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magicman491
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Okay I think I am going to buy bound to please and mnemonica! After that when I have the stack down, I might grab try the impossible.
What do you think?
By the way thanks a lot to all of you for helping,
Much appreciated
JanForster
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Try to get then "Simply Simon" - IMHO it is the best book of Aronson (once you have learned a stack). Jan
Jan Forster
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magicman491
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Thanks
Dennis Loomis
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To magicman491,

Because of Simon's detailed discussion of the mnemonics of playing cards and numbers, Bound to Please might be a good choice for your first mem-deck book. That is how I learned the Aronson Stack. However, Juan Tamariz has some very different learning techniques in the Chapter: Ultra-Rapid Memorization which begins on Page 23. This is broken into five topics: The Auditory Method, The Visual Method, The Muscular Method, The Conceptual Method, and The Security Method. Basically he suggests that you find a block of several hours during which you will not be interrupted and you lock yourself in a room and go to work. In a single afternoon you will know your stack. And the next day you will be ready to perform some simple mem-deck effects. I can't attest to this from personal knowledge because I had already learned the Aronson Stack before I got Mnemonica. However, I think this is a refreshingly different approach to learning and if Tamariz says it works... I'm sure that it does.

As to your second purchase, there are a lot of possibilities. My friend JanForster is right that there is a lot of good mem-deck stuff in "Simply Simon." But you might want to try a different author like Eric Richardson, Michael Close or Eric Mead. Any of Eric's writings are worth studying, although there is a big collection of stuff in his book "Oasis." Eric Mead's "Tangled Web" has some mem-deck stuff and lots of other very clever magic. Michael Close has put out a lot of great material in print, on DVD's and e-books. There is also material from Darwin Ortiz, Allen Ackerman, Pit Hartling, and others. However, "Bound to Please" and "Mnemonica" will keep you busy for a very long time if you want to really study and learn all of the mem-deck stuff in those two books.

There is much more to mem-deck mastery than just learning the order of the cards and their stack numbers. I suggest that you come to my web site and read my article on mem-deck mastery. This article, considerably tightened-up, is also in my MUM Column in the June, 2010 issue. My article is followed by an article by Mike Close on the same subject, although Mike's article is largely about a procedure involving a metronome to help you really get to know your stack.

Dennis Loomis

P. S. A quick comment about mnemonics. The basic concepts haven't actually changed very much since the days of Ancient Greece. The concepts that Simon teaches you are the same as you will find in the writings of Harry Lorayne, David Roth (not the coin guy), Bruno Furst, Robert Montgomery and even Kevin Trudeau. Oh sure, they may have slightly different code words for playing cards and numbers, but the basic underlying concepts are the same.
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
magicman491
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Thanks Dennis
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