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magicman491 Veteran user 326 Posts |
Hey,
I am very keen in starting with memorized decks... and have been looking at Simon Aronoson... I am looking at bound to please. is this the best book to start with from Simon? I want to learnt the stackand then learn some tricks involvin the stack. Is Bound to pleas the way to go? Thanks |
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JanForster Inner circle Germany ... when not traveling... 4190 Posts |
Yes:). Jan
Jan Forster
www.janforster.de |
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magicman491 Veteran user 326 Posts |
Thanks, what about his other ones, do you recommend others. Try the impossible looks good!
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SIX Inner circle New York City 1772 Posts |
Is there a specefic reason you wouldnt start with Mnemonica? Its become the Mem Deck Bible over the years.
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ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2499 Posts |
Bound to Please is certainly the way to go if you have already decided that the Aronson stack is the one best suited for your memorized deck needs. Just be certain that you have given intelligent consideration to all the other approaches before committing yourself to any one in particular.
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
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JanForster Inner circle Germany ... when not traveling... 4190 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-09-01 10:51, SIX wrote: Yes, but all important routines are stack independent. To get a first idea what you can accomplish with a MD plus getting an excellent method to memorize it leads me to my honest recommendation of "Bound to Please". Jan
Jan Forster
www.janforster.de |
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magicmann Veteran user 311 Posts |
I agree with Jan start with Bound to Please
Paul |
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magicman491 Veteran user 326 Posts |
I have been looking t Bound to Please and Mnemonica, but they seem similar... can anyone explain the differences... ie(effects in the book, ease of stack, what you can possibly do once you learn THAT stack)
Thanks |
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SIX Inner circle New York City 1772 Posts |
Well I cant imagine anything from Aronson being bad...but I can only explain why I feel Mnemonica would be a better choice....note it may not be the BEST, but in this case could be better.
1) Mnemonica has inspired many magicians and they have in turn created new material based off of that stack. This means that you would have a wealth of knowledge available now and of course in the future even more material. Note: Not all effects are stuck toa specefic stack...but for the effects that are, there is more work being done with Mnemonica vs the Aronson stack at this point and most likely in the future. 2) This was shared with me when I was unsure of what to learn, and most likely my main reason for going to Mnemonica...now do know I was learning about mem deck stuff at the time where Aronson was the main guy and Mnemonica was going to be released. A friend made a great point which could mean everything or nothing depending on your approach. Aronson, though a genius and brillian creator, was and is admittedly an amatuer magician. THIS DOES NOT MEAN HE IS A BAD MAGICIAN! It just means he wouldnt spend as much time in front of a live audience as say Tamariz, who was/is a professional magician. Now this statement will most likely get me a lot of heat, but I think the way Tamariz thinks about magic is more valauble in my eyes. There is so many little things I learned from that book that I connected to my non stack work. He also thinks as a performer and if you were performing the material. I cant say Aronson hasnt thought this way, but I feel it would be natural to go with experience. Tamariz is the Vernon of our time, this stack will live forever. 3) Tamariz shares all of his work in one book. Aronson has it spread out. This means you have to buy multiple books and do a little digging. That is in no way a bad thing, just a note. 4) I do not currently know a magician personally who uses the Aronson stack...I know Josh Jay used too, but if he still does Id have to ask him. This means when you meet magicians who also use mnemonica, you will learn so much from them in exchange of ideas. Asi Wind and Doug McKenzie have opened my eyes incredibly with the possibilites of Mnemonica and I am always amazed at what they think of. If I was using Aronson stack, most wouldnt apply and Id lose it. 5) Jan mentioned some of the best tricks are not stack independant. Which means you can learn mnemonica and apply ideas from Aronson, which I feel is better then vice versa. (see aforementioned) 6) Its very easy to get into Mnemonica from opening a brand new deck...I remember there was know way to do so for the Aronson stack...maybe someone has created a way...but again search... I will stop here...please don't take this that the Aronson stack isn't worth study, it absolutely is..Just consider the above. Also follow this link..the second one on the page will allow you to download the Aronson stack order and a free booklet that Aronson put together addressing the stack.. I think it was before mnemonica..but her its free and wel worth reading. Its what I first read. https://www.google.com/search?q=shufflin......irefox-a Good luck and stay thirty my friends Six |
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hdejong New user 20 Posts |
Mnemonica is a superb book. And I have always loved Aronson's works -- his methods are genius and he really spends the time to explain his thinking. So I would definitely get over time Mnemonica and all of Aronson's works. As others have said many times, the best memorized deck magic is stack independent, and both of these genius authors have tons of amazing stack independent effects in their works.
I have tried and failed to learn long term Aronson's stack (using a peg mnemonic system) and Tamariz's stack (using his methods). Unless you perform memorized deck often (or have exceptionally good memory) it is easy to forget the order. A few days ago I learned the Joyal stack and it was millions of times easier for me to learn that stack. It took me only 2 hours to learn the stack so that I could recall all the cards slowly and now I am working for speed. I also feel that it would be a lot more difficult to forget Joyal's stack. I have also heard very good things about the quicker stack by ddyment, though have not seen his manuscript. In short, I would not learn aronson's or Tamariz's stacks unless you plan to perform memorized deck often, but would definitely buy their books for amazing effects. |
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JanForster Inner circle Germany ... when not traveling... 4190 Posts |
Oh, I know many still using the Aronson stack, I am one of them. And I still could benefit a lot from Tamariz. I did not find any important or strong routine I could not do with Aronson's stack. And there are many routines by Aronson you can do straight away with Tamariz' stack. The new deck feature I find quite irrelevant due to real world performance conditions.
For a beginner I think "Bound to please" is simply less overwhelming. But once somebody started he should get and study all by Aronson and Tamariz anyway. Jan
Jan Forster
www.janforster.de |
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magicman491 Veteran user 326 Posts |
Thanks guys>..
Which book, Mnemonica or Bound to Please, actually have MORE effects in the one book. and also if I buy bound to please, then get Tamariz, doesn't that mean I have to use two stacks, so not much point? Thanks |
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JanForster Inner circle Germany ... when not traveling... 4190 Posts |
No, you need only one stack... important you know your stack. More routines you find in Mnemonica, it's a big book! And again: All strong, important and good routines are stack independant. There are many who created their own stack and still perform many effects of Tamariz and Aronson. You've to get the right idea: You do not learn an order (that's secondary and logical), but a new second identity for each card. Jan
Jan Forster
www.janforster.de |
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hdejong New user 20 Posts |
Mnemonica will have more effects (most are very strong), though I agree with Jan that it could be more overwhelming. Most (if not all) of the best effects by both Tamariz and Aronson are stack independent. That means you could perform those effects even if you shuffled a deck of cards and memorized that unique order. I think the most important this is to memorize a stack, any stack.
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magicman491 Veteran user 326 Posts |
So I could learn the aronson stack, but still be able to perform the majority of effects in tamriz's book?
Also I hear that Tamriz's is more difficult, faro's etc. |
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hdejong New user 20 Posts |
Yes, you could memorize the Aronson stack and perform many of the effects in Tamariz's book. What is nice is that Tamariz separates out effects that are specific to his stack and effects that can use any stack (and the later effects are stronger I feel). Some of Tamariz's effects are definitely advanced (with many perfect faros or the ability to think extremely fast) but many others only require more basic sleights and subtleties.
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SIX Inner circle New York City 1772 Posts |
IN Mnemonica he shows you the routines with faros and how to perform them without them, using dealing and logical
reasoning. Read the lil book download I put it....Id say study both books and then decide. If you are a beginner, which Im not sure if you are. This is also a section for sleights in the book that work well with the stack. You also get amazing effects with a half stack so you cn learn the first 26 and then the rest as time goes on, but still have miracles to work on. You will also get a section that shares effects that improve with mnemonica which is a great read. I know such tuff decisions..but hey HDEJONG had it right, just learn a stack already...Go get Dani DaOrtizs "My personal Stack" Its $12 at the Lybrary.com lol I don't think its a mem deck though but for $12 .... lol Have fun man! that's the most important part. |
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts |
For what it's worth, I'll offer my two cents here.
1. Go read Doug Dyment's excellent essay. (He provided a link to it in a previous post.) 2. Make the decision that you will be able to memorize a stack. 3. Based on what you think you need, pick a stack. (Nicola, Aronson, Tamariz, Joyal, etc.) If the effects built into the stack are not very important to you, almost any stack will do. If the built-in effects are of primary importance, you might want to devise your own stack. (In that case, pick a methodology for learning your stack. Aronson's methodology can be applied to your custom stack. Tamariz's methodology will also work with your own custom stack. Joyal's methodology is specific to his stack.) 4. Buy the applicable book. 5. Learn the stack. Allot at least one month to the task. The biggest problem most magicians have with stack work is 'paralysis by analysis.' They spend way too much time looking for that perfect stack. Read Dyment's essay to get an idea of what you might need, pick a stack, and learn it. I learned the Joyal stack over a weekend about ten years ago. It completely changed the way that I approach my card magic. If there were a Nike ad about this topic, it would be simple: JUST DO IT!
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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JanForster Inner circle Germany ... when not traveling... 4190 Posts |
Barry, I couldn't have said it better . Jan
Jan Forster
www.janforster.de |
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magicman491 Veteran user 326 Posts |
Do you guys personally think that aronsons or Tamarizs built in effects are better?
Also is joyal easier to memorize? |
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