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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » How many cards. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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cmwalden
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Cedar Park, TX
150 Posts

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Greetings.

I've finally found some motivation for doing classical manipulation and have been slowly putting some things together. Right now I'm focused on the work from Jeff McBride's Routined manipulation 1 & 2. Specifically I'm working with the Perfect Production, Snap Production and the Cardini One-handed and split fan productions.

I'm curious as to how many cards some of you tend to use in a single load. I noticed that on the teaching videos Jeff will do 10 - 14 cards per load, but that's a teaching video. How many do you typically do per load. How many loads do you tend to do? Inquiring minds and all that.

I'm mostly working on moves right now, so routine will evolve soon enough. The Thurston 5-card routine will probably be my first serious presentation of card manipulation.

In the mean time I'm curious as to general trends amongst my colleagues.
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djvirtualreality
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MayfieldNew York
1347 Posts

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I never done body loads yet because I want to perfect my productions first, but If I did do loads, I would probably do 2-3 loads of 5-10 cards.
Life is an illusion, death is reality.
magic4u02
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Eternal Order
Philadelphia, PA
15111 Posts

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Well If I am using loads in the act, I tend to use anywhere between 10-15 cards pending what move or sequence I am about to do.

I have also found that working off the deck and making steals from the deck also works very well. You can steal the amount of cards they you need at any given moment and get them into front palm or backplam position with relative ease.

I would try both and see what works well for you. if your going to be doing spli fans from a load, I would go with more cards as it makes the fans more impressive when displayed before the split.
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zombieboy
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Connecticut, USA
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It all depends on what type of cards and production you are about to do. Also, you should look into working off the pack, it is great in conjunction with body loads.
magic4u02
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Philadelphia, PA
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You really need to work the act out and the sequences before you can find out what the best loading methods will be for you and what cards will work best.

You may realize that at some pasrts in the act, working off the deck is easier because maybe you just did full deck fanning and are now going to need cards for doing some split fans. Since you have the deck in your hand, at this point it is easier to make the steal off the deck as opposed to a body load.

At other times, you may want to show both hands empty in order to do a non card move and then go back into cards. if this is the case, then a body load is probably best.

So it really depends on how your act is structured and set up.
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-The Scot-
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Kyle is right, you do need to have a vague idea what sleights you are going to perform. For some manipulations - you quickly discard your stock (like with split fans - you loose your cards fairly rapidly), where as other productions keep the stock for a little longer, such as the eclipse production found on volume 3 of Art of Card Manipulation. Knowing an outline of your routine before hand will help you work out how many cards and how many steals you require.

Good luck with your routine.
maylor
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england
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Don't fall into the trap that many people do - thinking the more cards you backpalm - the better the act. If you do feel the need to backpalm a load of cards - use them creatively and don't just bang them out as intense - faster than light - single productions. For me, this gets seriously boring to watch.
magic4u02
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Philadelphia, PA
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It gets back to an earlier point. Do not try and do the act to simply impress yourself. That is not why you are supposed to be on stage.

Your goal should not be to simply show off how many moves you can do in under 10 mins. Your goal should be to produce the most entertaining 10 mins that you possibly can.

You use the knowledge of the slieghts and the moves as tools in your tool case to produce this entertainment.
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Darkwing
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Nashville Tn
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I normally use about 12 - 16 Bees for split fan productions, 12 -14 Norm Nielson cards for producing Cardini singles, and 12 for snap productions. Seems to work well for me.
JamesinLA
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Los Angeles
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I used to perform Lewis Ganson's card routine from his routined manipulation books. That routine has no body loads; everything is carried in both your hands/gloves. Obviously, it has to be an opening routine of the show or an act. There are three loads of 25 cards each. 25 cards inside the glove of your left hand and another 25 cards outside the glove of your left hand palm. And another 25 cards back palmed in your right gloved hand. I can't really do the routine anymore because it's been so long ago (when I was 14!) but I've been thinking about using it again lately.
Jim
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magic4u02
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Philadelphia, PA
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James:
It would be nice for you to take that out of the closet and dust off those cards and perform it again. It really is a nice routine and audiences seem to love it.
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aznviet6uy
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Santa Rosa, CA
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I practice with 28 cards on my hands, to gain the finger muscles needed to perform, but when I do card manipulations, I use about 18 cards that's if I have body loads, but without loads about 22. practice with the entire deck and your fingers will be super strong and you'll be able to hold more cards.

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ufo
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Phoenix, Arizona
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10-15 cards seems about average. You may want to check out the remarks on battle between the thinner manipulation cards and regular cards as this can make a difference. And again, as all these folks have said...it really just depends on what you are trying to do and why as to how much back palming is enough. Good luck!
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Darkwing
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Nashville Tn
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The only thing I get concerned about is the person that says " I can back palm a half of deck or a full deck of cards" and then will want to produce the whole pack. I think the audience gets a little tired of seeing a bunch of cards produced at one time. It does get to a point to where the magician is saying "look how many cards I can produce" instead of creating magic.
maylor
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england
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Exactly Darkwing. It's surprising how many magicians fall into this trap. It just seems common sense to me that producing endless streams of single cards is boring!! I don't know why people do this.
magic4u02
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Philadelphia, PA
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It is because most manipulators fall in love with themselves. They feel they learned all these moves so that have to show every single one of them. It becomes an act of showing off rather then an act of entertainment.
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-The Scot-
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True, Kyle. Must watch out for that in the future!

Thanks!
magic4u02
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Philadelphia, PA
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It is an easy trap to fall into. We get so impressed with a new move that we forget that our responsibility as a performer is to entertain the audience first and foremost.

The moves that you learn should only be simple tools in which to construct a great, fun and entertaining act. You do not need 50 million moves in an 8 min act to be entertaining.
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-The Scot-
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Smile

Go Kyle!

You can always rely on Kyle to give you sound advice Smile
magic4u02
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Philadelphia, PA
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Scot:
Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate that. I just like stating my own humble opinion and hope that my ideas and thoughts on magic help others who may need it.

Most of what I do know has been learned through a lot of trial and error. Things that have gone wrong in the past, I try to solve so they do not become problems in the future. From these experiences, I learn and evolve my magic.

If I can help anyone to not make the same mistake I have made, then I feel I am giving back to magic what it has given to me.

Anyone can feel free to PM me at any time to just chat magic, magic thoughts, ideas or simply brainstorm on act ideas.
Kyle Peron

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