As some of you know, I finally am going to take action to answer the call to the ministry I first felt in my late teens (yes, back in the 1800's!) I would certainly appreciate your thoughts on one particular point please. 

1. Attend a Seminary that is accredited 

2. Attend a Seminary that is NOT accredited..

The time difference to do what I need to do to graduate with a M. Div is significant. 5 years at an accredited school. 2 1/2 at an unaccredited school. This is assuming I still work as a CFP during the day and do all my classes online at night. 

Obviously the accredited school costs a lot more to attend. At age 55, time to finish and cost are "must be considered" topics. 

Not knowing the exact area of focus, or what church(s) I might want to work for in the future means that accreditation may or may not be "that" important in my situation.

At this time I feel a nudging toward evangelism, outreach ministries, kids ministries, church planting.

Is accreditation, in your opinion, that important to spend twice as long to finish and pay twice as much, considering I am 55?

Thanks!
Carl

I am not a pastor, so just blabbing on here. Two cents worth.

Obviously, Chuck Swindoll would say Dallas Seminary all the way. MacArthur would say The Master's College. Wesleyans (through IWU) have extensive training available- not all on campus either. Similar to Cornerstone University, Moody Bible Institute, etc..

So it most likely depends on what your objectives are and what denominations you are associated with. Pastor Chris Conrad through the Wesleyan Church in the Midwest works on setting up new church plants- he'd could tell you what they need/are looking for.

Obviously, to be a senior pastor at a "mega" church or large denominational church, would be difficult to obtain that position without a fully acredited seminary degree. For smaller churches, or for other positions, Spirit-led capable individuals are what the search committees are looking for... I have served on a number of search committees- it all depended on the position, salary range, you name it. For one large church I was an Elder at, we hired an Associate Pastor with zero seminary degrees- but he was a very capable individual with much church administration experience, and an excellent communicator to boot. So it all depends- I know spending years now at Dallas Seminary at my age studying Greek and Hebrew would be a haul.

Congrats on your considering this- in Swindoll's book "Saying It Well"- he spends the first few chapters talking about his own "call" to various ministries when he started out as an engineer and a U.S. Marine.

Thank you! A great response my friend. Very helpful!
Carl

Check with your denomination as some do not require a seminary degree to obtain ministerial credentials. Some denominations and fellowships offer "credit for life experience" that can be used toward obtaining credentials.

I too speak from limited experience - but any number of years at Moody Bible Institute would not be wasted. Their theology is solid, their Practical Christian Assignments are "where the rubber meets the road".

And, as the other poster (Magicbus) said - depending upon your denomination, location and theology, you can probably find a dozen good strong gospel christian institutes.

I see you are from Dallas - don't they have a little Christian school there? (http://www.dts.edu/)

Shalom

Rik

Carl,

I am a Professor of Biblical Studies in a Bible College and Seminary and I have also served as a pastor, just so you know my credentials. I would recommend that you seek an accredited degree. Accreditation isn't about seeking the world's approval for education but rather accrediting bodies help schools make sure they are accomplishing what their mission says they are accomplishing. That's a good thing. My experience has been that too many schools who eschew accreditation do so because their academic standards are so weak that they couldn't be accredited even if they wanted to be. So, in the end if you're paying for education, especially so that you can be better equipped for gospel ministry, you might as well be paying out bucks for an education that actually prepares you to handle the text of God's Word both truthfully and skillfully. Since you live in Dallas, you have some good choices nearby. DTS would be fine choice for you and you can always look at alternatives to their standard Th.M. degree that most are pursuing if you're wanting to shorten the process a bit. I believe it would be helpful to talk to a campus rep who could talk over the options with you.

Let me just say there is no substitute for adequate training even if the sacrifice involves a few years. The time you put into training will save you grief in the long run. You can think of it as a trade off of "school of hard knocks" versus learning in a discipling environment that fends off many of those hard knocks. The people you shepherd one day will be glad you got the training and I suspect you will also. Furthermore, the greatest skill you can learn is the skill to exegete the scriptures well--this skill will become your bread and butter for ministry. You won't regret that skill I assure you. I have known several older men who pursued seminary education late in life and they did not regret the training they received one bit.

Hope this helps you as you continue to seek the Lord's direction for your life. Blessings to you!

Bruce Meyer

Ditto the the last post and ...

As a pastor I would lean towards an accredited degree. At age 55 with so many years of practical experience, I suspect a shorter (and less rigorous) unaccredited degree would be a waste of your time as I suspect what they would "teach" you, you could learn via self study if you have not already learnt or experienced ...

Best wishes!

I don't know if you've made your decision yet, but I'm going to recommend an accredited school. Largely for the same reasons that Bruce recommends one.

As a pastor that doesn't hold an MDiv, I'm wondering if you are required by your denomination to hold that degree or if you feel like that is the degree that God is calling you toward? I hold a BA in Biblical Studies/Pastoral Ministries - and while I hope to pursue a master and a doctorate at some point (maybe when the nest is empty) I can tell you that an MDiv isn't necessary to do the work of a pastor (unless your denomination requires it).

PM me if you'd like to speak in more detail, but I'll tell you that if you've been called God will equip you. He'll lead you to the educational program that will equip and prepare you to fulfill the call.

There is nothign quite like the blessings and trials that come with a life of minsitry, but I wouldn't trade any of these years. When you are walking the path that God designed for you, His peace truly passes all understanding!

JD

I'm not sure it will help at this point, but I will chip in a couple details. Pay particular attention to WHAT accreditation you are seeking and the requirements of that body, as well as your intended target ministry.

For instance, at my last look, the ATS accreditation (Association of Theological Schools) requires that you spend at least 1/3 of your course time sitting in a physical class on campus. That means that an ATS accredited school MUST have, at least partially, the courses taught in a classroom setting. Some schools do this by establishing satellite campuses or so-called 'intensives', requiring a week or two out of the year of full-time residence to complete studies. The ATS accreditation is one of the top accreditations sought today.

Within my own denomination this makes for interesting situations. For instance, the top school is Nazarene Theological Smeinary in Kansas City, which is ATS accredited and offers an MDiv. Northwest Nazarene university in Nampa, Idaho offers an MDiv as well, but it is not an ATS degree because they decided to offer it totally on-line. NNU is regionally accreditated, but not ATS. Same courses, but not same accreditation. This can affect such things as who will allow you to teach (some schools, even if non-accreditated might insist that their teachers have degrees from accreditated schools), which church might be accepting of your degree, etc..

In general, accreditation is good, but much depends on WHO and HOW.

Ray

I am not a priest or minister and given that I am a convert from Roman Catholicism to Eastern Orthodoxy I certainly can't speak to what Ptotestant denomonations require in terms of accredited versus non-accredited seminaries. BUT, I can speak as a student just a few seminars away from a Master's in Education with plans to pursue a Doctorate. If you are going to receive financial aid from the US Department of Education, you must attend a federally accredited university/law school/medical school/seminary, etc., to receive funding. Also note that as of July 1 of this year the bulk of financial aid for graduate students -which seminarians are - has been changed. The bulk of aid outside of scholarships and any graduate grants available from private sources are now in the form of Stafford Unsubsidised Loans. It used to be that the split was roughly 50/50 between subsidized and unsubsidized loans. Subsidized loans were especially helpful because interest did not accrue during the time you are enrolled at least half time in a graduate program - six credit hours.

I do not know about ATS as that seems to apply to Protestant seminaries. Orthodox and Catholic seminaries are federally accredited but obviously they would not be your choice.

Academically speaking, depending on what you want to do in terms of your ministry,federally accredited universities tend to look better on your curriculum vitae because these schools usually attract the best professors. In graduate school, it is generally accepted that WHO you study with is just as important as where you study. Now, that said, I am taking a wild guess - again because I am unsure how/if denominations recognize MDiv and DD degrees from denominations and "non-denominations" outside of one's particular denomination. So for example, if you attended Wheaton which I believe has a United Methodist seminary, could you then seek a ministry in the Church of God or let's say a Southern Baptist church? Others here could answer that accurately but given the doctrinal differences among denominations, that MAY be a point to consider.

It seems to me as I read Ray's post above that he offers quite sound advice Carl as does Professor Meyer.

Regardless of the seminary you choose, I think it is awesome that you have chosen to heed the Call! The Lord will guide you in your studies and our prayers are with you!

+In Christ,
Vlad

PS: In terms of cost, the Federal Student Loan Program has very attractive interest rates and many mechanisms in place to assist you when repayment time comes. Please do not allow cost to influence your decision to serve God as one of His ministers? He will help you find a way.

Hi Carl. I am ordained with the Evangelical free church of America. (www.efca.org) I currently live in Vienna, Austria where I teach I teach in a christian school and pastor a local church.

What others have helpfully said above I would fully agree. I think it might be good to sit down with someone and talk about what and where exactly to do you see your calling lived out. If you are aiming at a local church pastor it would be good to find in advance to determine in which denomination will you serve? Once you can delineate that then look to see what credentials that denomination looks for.

Can I ask a different question? What kind of ministries are you involved with now? All ministry is essentially GOSPEL ministry. In what ways are you doing gospel ministry now and in what ways would seeking credentialling help fullfill and advance the gospel thru your life?

You mention nudging toward outreach, evangelism, kids ministries, church planting. Do you need to be ordained to do evangelism? Church planting is very specific and has little to do with kids ministries. An M Div and ordination usually is for those seeking to be a pastor in a local church. That is a shepherd calling where you feed the flock the Word of God and nuture and care for those under your spiritual leadership.

I think it is awesome that you feel called to ministry, but I believe every believer is called to ministry and their gifting is their calling. What we all need to be about is asking how our lives can advance the gospel around the world. If our calling is vocational then taking the steps to get trained in the gospel is very helpful. Getting the best education where you can be accredited will only open more doors down the road. The Lord will lead you.

blessings Carl!

Tom Mason

Carl,

I think the question of where to become educated for ministry is good one to ask, and it has been well answered here.

But what makes you think that you are called to Pastor?

Feeling you are called is a start.

But what do you think you can offer? Do you feel a need to serve? Or do you like being up front, and knowing more about the Bible than others?

Pastoring is one of the most difficult, and challenging jobs that exists. The hours are sometimes very long, the pay usually isn't all that good. The work is hard. And the responsibilities are enormous.

I am not saying don't do it. I am just saying, make very sure you are doing it for the right reasons.

Counsel with someone with whom you can and will be honest. Answer the hard questions.

And if you end up Pastoring, make sure that you keep counsel with people who really know you. These need to be people who will have the courage to tap you on the shoulder and ask, do you know what you are doing? They need to be ones who know your shortcomings, and will pull you back when you move towards the edge.

Good luck, and God Bless!

The Doctor
aka Brother David

Good advice, Brother David.

When I transitioned from a 25 year full time professional entertainer into pastoral ministry, my first mentor asked me, "I there anything else you can do that will make you happy?" I was stunned. I walked away wondering why this man was trying to talk me out of ministry. I later came to understand his question...... If there IS anything else you can do that will make you happy,,,, it's not God calling. If ministry is the ONLY option you have, answer.

A very wise man once said, "God does not call the prepared, he prepares the called." Unfortunately I have several friends that have obtained the M Div, and then after an evaluation time in service, were told that they did not posess the gifts and graces for ministry. NO degree can guarantee you a ministry position. As mentioned earlier in a post, most denominations offer an alternate route to ministry. In the United Methodist tradition it is called the "Course of Study". In the Disciple or UCC churches, it is a "school of religion." Both lead to pastoral ministry but not to a M Div. I am about to complete my 5 year course of Study, and am appointed to a medium sized church (about 300 per week), and I may go on to ordination -- and I may not. God however, is using me as I am..... and if it IS God calling, He will do the same for you. God Bless

As an ordained pastor with an accredited degree, my 2 cents is "it's all about who hires you."

Search teams are NOT theologically trained and they don't know this from that half the time. They are made up of lay people and are either working independently or working under the advisement of the denomination.

When I was looking for a calling my denomination sought to help find me placement, and through them I knew I had backing, and so other churches in my denomination knew I was "signed off" by them

But ultimately it was a non-denominational church who hired me - and to be honest, they liked me, but they didn't agree "on paper" with my seminary background.

If you are a member at a local church who you enjoy and would consider being ordained through - remember, it's the church who ordaines you, NOT the denomination. Then I would suggest looking into what your denomination requires.

Most require only a Masters Degree. Which I got in two years. Very rarely do churches require MDiV's anymore - it's a whole extra year and typically a church hires YOU not your degree.

Hope that helps

Figure out what you are planning to do, and then what will train you properly to do it. Finally, find out what requirements people will have to allow you to do it. In other words, if the ministry you are planning for can be properly prepared for with an unaccredited degree, that may work. But many churches have certain expectations. Some churches are less concerned about the degree and more concerned about the individual. Other churches want the word "Doctor" associated with their pastor, even small churches. Expectations vary with denominations. One of the best pastors I have known had an unaccredited degree, I would hire him in a heartbeat. but a lot of churches wouldn't touch him. I have also known people who went on to get DMin degrees from great accredited schools who were lousy in ministry. Your education is half the school and half you. The unaccredited degree will restrict your options and effect the way your peers see you. If you are happy with those restrictions, and can get a quality education without it (which you need to carefully check out) then you can answer your question.

The Orthodox and Catholic churches also offer other paths as well. I cannot become a priest in the Orthodox Church because I was divorced - even though I fought to keep the marriage together the Church does not condone divorce except in cases of abuse. But my priest told me I can still be a priest without the collar. The calling for me is so srtrong that I had thought for a brief time to convert to Anglicanism which would admit me to the priesthood, but, I cannot leave my church because it is my home.

I know that God will give you the answers you seek. If He seems silent, just remember this: another priest told me that when it seems that God is so silent and not listening, that is actually when He is listening most. I like that thought.

+In Christ,
Vlad