I know what I am about to write may create some controversy, possibly even a little dissention. That’s okay. Maybe this will turn into an interesting discussion.

I have noticed over the course of many years that the old style card cheating mechanics of the past seem to be slowly going the way of the dinosaur. Additionally the process seems to be accelerating. Of course one can still use bottoms, seconds, peeks, Greek deals, hops, mucks, etc. in a great many private games throughout the country (U.S.), and be able to do so for the foreseeable future. However, things appeear to be changing.

The more well known methods and moves are rapidly loosing much of their efficacy to make really big money for a number of reasons. First of all, most of the common gimmicks are getting to be very well known, which is why the best concentrate only on a few top gaffs or methods, or if necessary change a well known gimmick to such a degree that it becomes unrecognizable. It seems like it is just a matter of time, especially with the great popularity of poker, before one starts to see expose DVDs sold at the local convenience store for $5.95 or thereabouts. The more people who get exposed to these common cheating methods, the more dangerous they becomes to use.

Naturally, most people don’t know very much about cheating moves or gimmicks nor are they able to detect them, especially if done cleverly and competently. But with the continual exposure, the possibility increases that someone in the local game either learns or knows enough to pick up on the fact that cheating is occurring, and it only takes one person in a group to screw things up for the cheat and bring about his detection.

Secondly, playing conditions are changing materially. Casinos and card rooms seem to be springing up everywhere, most of which have professional dealers, and people tend to frequent these rooms because of convenience, the fact that they can almost always get a game, and because of the perceived “safety” of playing conditions. In addition, many of these card rooms offer a wide variety of games, tournaments and betting structures, something you really can’t find in private games. Furthermore, online poker is making considerable inroads plus the new ePoker rooms will continue to grow. In fact, these small new ePoker tables can be installed almost anywhere, in small businesses and even in private homes. The old time cheating moves are almost completely useless under these new conditions of play. For the most part, this new playing environment (professionally run card rooms and online), is where the most money can and will be made.

So who are these “new” mechanics who are the primary ones mastering these old time moves. They certainly are not the first rate card cheats, especially those that hustle the card rooms and casinos games. In my opinion, the new mechanics are the magicians, card tricksters, demonstrators and expose crowd. They are the ones who are mastering these older techniques, the seconds, bottoms, center deals, Greek bottoms, stack shuffles, hops, etc. They are the people who are fascinated by these methods, who vicariously enjoy the concept of cheating others out of their money under scrutiny, appreciate the beauty and challenge of a well-executed move, but who are either not capable of getting the money, or have no desire to cheat, for a number of reasons.

Firstly, they may simply have no real need to cheat anyone, either because they have sufficient income, are basically honest, and being a cheater is not something they really care to become. Secondly, they may not be courageous enough to go for the cash because of the fear of being caught. It takes a lot more courage and is considerably harder to move under watchful eyes then it is on the kitchen table in front of a practice mirror. And thirdly, they may not know enough to actually get the money, their moves may be impractical under fire and/or they really don’t know how to implement them correctly. Just knowing how to do some old moves won’t get it. Most of what they master, at least the way they do it, could not get the money in an important game.

To be sure, friends and acquaintances will continue to get together in private game settings to play poker, or other card games, either for modest stakes or for very high stakes. Of course, in these games there will always be opportunities for both the amateur and professional cheater. (In the really big private games, one must usually be introduced and invited, and often times must have some type of professional or business credentials to get that invitation.) But to really be good, and to make a great deal of money, one must be able to beat the professionally run games, either the poker games spread in casino card rooms, or the casino type games themselves.

Moreover, in my opinion, in the next twenty years or so, the use of paper or plastic playing cards may possibly become, for the most part, obsolete in cards games for any significant stakes. I believe that gin rummy, poker, bridge, etc., may all be played in some type of electronic setting and the boards to play these games will be inexpensive and readily available to the masses for use in their home games.

Finally, and I have no doubt of this, the card or casino game cheaters of the future will be using techniques and methods that have yet to be dreamed of. It appears that conclusion is almost inescapable.

Old moves still get the money in some places. New moves work better in another places. It's mainly a matter of context.

Cheats will always manage to adapt. Cheats will always find an edge. And there will be cheats forever. That's part of human nature.

For every lazy magician ther are 101 devices.

As time goes by more devices will be invented and the more devices that there are the more lazy there will be.

This all sounds reasonable to me.

I can imagine that physical machines--be they roulette wheels or playing cards--will be obsolete quite soon in most Western environments. Probably sooner than 20 years.

I cannot picture baccarat players in Macao using machines instead of cards. Ever.

They would have to design a special electronic device where the players could mutilate and bend up the corners and maybe excentuate their heavy breathing and effort as they do so.

Exactly!

I tend to agree with many of your observations...I would be surprised if electronic gaming replaces real cards in private / social environments.

I am sure that gaff electronic card games will become common and too easy to implement.....A least with real cards a persona stands a chance of seeing of something is "funny".

I would NEVER trust electronic games....when I was in college, I took a computer course in Artificial Intelligence...I wrote a backgammon game which beat most people...But, I also added a feature which allowed people to play each other and it had a special way to roll more desirable #s for the person who knew the secret.

That was over 30 years ago....and today, it is a lot easier to write such code.

NOTE: "Official dealers" will also tend to be a problem.....
While not common today, I suspect that a dealer colluding with what appears to be a stranger may become more common.

Insider cheating is the most common and most difficult problem for casinos to detect.
NOTE: I am not saying that insider cheats are common...I am just saying that their are more internal problems than issues which come from external sources.

Casinos are also not as motivated to "protect" poker from other games of chance because the house gets it's cut regardless of who wins. They are more concerned with a casinos reputation in the poker world in my opinion.

BOTTOM LINE: The public conception that a casino is "safe" is critical to casino growth in the poker industry.
Collusion events are rarely made public.

I have noticed that over the course of many years that I taken plenty of money off long in the tooth gamblers who thought that they could not be fooled by an old style card mechenic.

Yeah...no. The BOTTOM LINE is that casinos make ship-loads of money on the slots, which are about as safe on the user as regularly visiting prostitutes and not using condoms. So why do people use slots?

I mean, I agree with you. But I think the word "safe" means something different to different people. People using a slot machine think their chances are the same as for everyone else. They don't care about the chances of the machine.

In the same way, they would probably use epoker tables because they think their chances are the same as that for everyone else around the table. They don't care about the chances of the machine.

And shame on you for cheating at backgammon.

In the 60s I recall reading a short story in Readers Digest by a professional thief and he said at end of it, the safe cracker of the future would be a computer cracker. I thought back then we would be playing on other planets by 2001.

And we are, so you were right.

Yes I do recall seeing Jason dealing a seound is space.

Actually, those were centers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BojQiPJacHg

But, you know, centers are completely useless when there's gravity around.

The center of gravity

Thanks.

What is already happening is people taking their cheating (and attempted cheating habits) from online card rooms to live card rooms. This means more team work such as collusion and having a partner peaking at opponents cards.

That said, the live scene has plenty of chip moves, such as removing or adding chips to a stack when all-in etc. Also, people are removing tournament chips at one event with the purpose of adding it at another tournament when it is more beneficial to do so. In fact, chip moves might be one of the most common cheating that goes on in live tournament play (but also side games). You might actually be surprised that it is almost never a live tournament will end up with the same amount of chips at the end as they are supposed to. Sometimes it is due to cheating, more often simply due to dealer error, people nicking a chip for their collection, or any other of a multitude of unimportant reasons.

I would say that one part of the change that Cag is talking about is that the importance of card work goes down, but the importance of chip work goes up. (If nothing else, just because it is so popular to hire a dealer for the night making it hard for a player to get his hands on the cards.)

/

Sorry if the above was a bit jumbled wrote it in a hurry. Basically I wanted to make two points:

1) Some card cheating methods, that although they have been around, have been developed online and moved to live games.
2) I believe that with the current trends of casino play and home games with hired dealers, card work will be less used than chip work. In fact, I believe this is already the case.

Thanks, and sorry if I rambled a bit.

There are so many side deals done before a comp even begins that the whole thing has become a joke. You can save that many 10%s that you have to lose to have a chance of winning. When they have a saver with someone they play cousins more or less. I am a cash player myself but now and again I play in a comp and never played on line.

True, the deals and swapping action makes it a joke more quite often I agree.

Makes me think of the wonderful scam of selling more than 100% of yourself in a tourney. There are some quite prominent players that do this on a regular basis. The most fun one must be the Dutch guy that went on an extreme heater and suddenly didn't want to lose his chips. He ended up winning a fairly big tournament, and ended up owing more money than he won ... haha.

Here's a pair of links that talks a bit about the phenomena:

http://www.texasholdemonline.com/news/mark-up-poker/
http://www.pokernews.com/news/2011/09/ba......1042.htm

/Stromberg

Thanks, those are nicely worded articles.