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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
The private poker games which I refered to above, were “commercial” games, the fact that they were commercial is an important factor with regard to house thinking on cheating.
Except in real high stakes games where a flat hourly fee was normally charged, a 5% rake was common poker. A 5% rake, is a terrific edge, in any game, in and of itself. Even a flat rate is a good earner. Even back in 60s etc a poker table could rake a lot of dough a night. The established house thinking was and is still; Why cheat, why risk losing the game and also risk your neck when you can earn a grand or two a night without cheating, why not simply run a square game? Thus most regular established private games at least tried to run a square game. Only a sucker would not consider the importance of reputation. If such an house did decide to use something, it was normaly something well thought out and very safe, rather than some, on the spot, reckless adventure with sleight of hand or whatever. And of course one does not have to use something all of the time. Sometimes once a year is enough in a high stakes game. If you are a bank robber you don't need to rob a bank every day .. do you?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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jackouille07 Regular user France 110 Posts |
How would you define "high stakes"?
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LOUIEL New user 81 Posts |
@AMcD
That's fair on your part I totally understand concerning your techniques, I have seen some of your videos on ur site awhile back, nice work. Yes I have played high stakes where like we've said earlier, some of these guys don't care if they lose big bankrolls they have much more to spare, meaning I've played with big rollers who just love to play, some suggest cut cards, kem cards, some hired dealers, some not, the ones that didn't I plied my trade, when all the other measures are in place it's absolutely difficult to chea@ plus that was awhile back, I love the Texas hold 'em game and love to play square I don't need artifice to win, but when I notice guys playing collusion and other tricks, it's time to work, even with a cut card I will use other methods NOT IN ERDNASE BTW but like I said that was long long ago, I play square now mainly in casinos which are surveillanced, I know I'm not cheated there, I have seen some sloppy dealers flashing cards which ****es me off, I don't want to be rude but I have to tell the dealer, hey be careful of your dealing because you're flashing lol. @Tommy Great post btw Anyways guys its always a pleasure talking eith the fraternity and the boys, I love you guys and all ur info and shared stories, lets keep on shuffling, practicing, and studying, but lets keep it honest shall we. Louie |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-09-24 11:45, LOUIEL wrote: Wait a minute. Foul. Double foul. Are you serious???? I thought you were an Official Erdnase Professional. Please check the Erdnase Professional certificate your received at the Erdnase Awards ceremony. In the fine print, unless I am mistaken, it very clearly states that once you receive this lofty designation and award, you will only use the moves described and authorized in and by Erdnase. Hmmm. So much for loyalty. Incidentally, recent research on Erdnase by three highly reputable scholars has finally discovered his identity, again. Seems like his real name was Harvey Swartz and he owned and operated a Kosher Deli on 41st Street and Broadway in New York in 1902. He evidently was bored with serving deli sandwiches all day long and someone said, “Why don’t you write a book on pseudo card cheating to ease the boredom.” He of course responded that he knew nothing about the subject. Their response back was, “Fake it.” Hence The Expert at the Card Table was born. A little known fact is the first editions all had a Deli Menu on the last page. Oh well, what can you expect from a 15 year old kid. |
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
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On 2012-09-24 12:25, Cagliostro wrote: Your "again" is excelllent! This is a point I can't understand amongst Magicians: the quest for Erdnase's real identity! Seriously, how important is it? Hmmm, makes me thinking I'm gonna start deep researches about Cag. For quite some time I thought he was Ron Conley. Then I turned my mind to guys like Big JB but I doubt they ever posted on any forum. Edward Thorp? Arnold Snyder? Tough game... |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-09-24 11:39, jackouille07 wrote: When?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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LOUIEL New user 81 Posts |
@Cagliostro,
No foul, or double foul here, yes I am a professional is that what you wanna hear? Lol I'll use all methods available, anything that works, I mentioned that, I don't care if its a few things from ERDNASE, and other sources, it's all about what works for me. You made me hungry and thinking about sandwiches from the Schwartz deli, lol you're a funny guy or shall I say a funny 15 year old kid lol I'm kidding. Anyways time to go eat. P.S. Which school or academy did you receive your certificate from? |
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llamalamer New user 3 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-09-24 12:25, Cagliostro wrote: Fake it? That's a little ludicrous, isn't it? I mean, even if Erdnase is not a real hustler per se, faking fine details that is written in his technical instruction is a pushing the discrediting a little too far. Again, as much as most of "Expert's" veneration comes from Vernon and all this "he ain't a real hustler" talk, the book is still appreciated by the few out there and these people really deserves some sort of respect for their dedication in the study of the material. There are still merits in "Expert" after all. Please don't degrade it till its almost trash. I urge you... Respectfully. |
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Albatros Regular user Germany 132 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-09-25 00:57, llamalamer wrote: hehe I think they key to Cag`s post is in the final ";-)"... however, on a sidenote, I am anxiously waiting for my copy of Card Mastery :O All the best, Sven ^^
"Palming cards... Like sex, it can be learned by almost anybody,but doing it well requires some native talent and assiduous practice." (John Scarne)
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Getting back to the concepts and ideas of the con of it all which Kid Cag wishes to talk about there is a couple of interesting books by this fellow; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzTEJWr27NY
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
What's weird about this thread is this: I haven't been around this forum for at least a year (though I might have popped in for a second). But I start reading Cagliostro's article and realize, "I've read this before!"
So either Cagliostro has stolen this stuff or I'm having a mental breakdown. Or there might be a third alternative. Anyway, thanks for posting it here, Cag. |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-09-25 00:57, llamalamer wrote: It was meant as a tongue in cheek joke, not to disparage Erdnase. In fact, the book does have considerable merit and I devoured it when I actually was about 13 -14 years old. If you read my previous threads about Erdnase, I recommend it as a first book to people just learning, combined with Card Mastery. I was just having some fun. At my age, I’m starting to babble a lot so don’t take it seriously. |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-09-25 08:54, stoneunhinged wrote: Everything I write is original with me and some of this material is sitting in files on my computer. In the past, some of this may have appeared on Card Shark (now pretty much dormant) where I wrote as “Rasputin” or Gimmicks and Fakes (which has since closed down and I don’t recall the name I used offhand on that forum), but it is all my stuff – 100%). Since the membership was so limited and read by so few on these other two forums, I occasionally pull good material that I wrote previously to make it available to a much wider audience on the Café. However, 99% of the material I write on the Café is brand new. |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
I was just kidding with you. I remember exactly where I read it the first time.
But that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm not having a mental breakdown.... |
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llamalamer New user 3 Posts |
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On 2012-09-25 09:01, Cagliostro wrote: Well, I'd guessed so after Albatros replied after mine. Thanks for clarifying anyway:) |
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Albatros Regular user Germany 132 Posts |
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On 2012-09-25 10:18, Cagliostro wrote: Some time ago I stubled upon the cardshark site - back then I couldn`t make my mind to register, even for the low fee asked (students and their bank account - an ever unsatisfying situation). Would you say it is still worth to check out? At least they offer some videos, and I would love to see some instruction on block-off work for the riffle shuffle. Usually when inquiring about this kind of technique I get pointed towards Fulves or Marlo, and their manuscripts are something I couldn't get my hands on so far -.- All the best, Sven ^^
"Palming cards... Like sex, it can be learned by almost anybody,but doing it well requires some native talent and assiduous practice." (John Scarne)
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Those techniques will be in my series Arcanum soon.
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Albatros Regular user Germany 132 Posts |
I take that as a promise ^^
"Palming cards... Like sex, it can be learned by almost anybody,but doing it well requires some native talent and assiduous practice." (John Scarne)
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Don't dream too much, my customers (I could almost write friends) are highly selected and I drive a hard bargain.
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
If Erdanse was a cheat and it has not been proven that he was, the book was self published in 1902. Back then people played cards in places like saloons. They also dressed differently and the games were different.
I never considered Erdnase a book about cheating. I always considered it a book about magic. Speaking as a magician a lot of his moves in my opinion are very practical. Explained well and not only explaned he covers many points and bitas of business of how to cover many moves in the book to make them look more natural. Vernon said (at a lecture I was at) that the best palm was the Erdnase palm. Lots of good stuff in Erdanse in my opinion as well as Card Mastery.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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