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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts 
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On 2012-10-02 06:39, stoneunhinged wrote: Well, I am sorry you feel that way, I just don't subscribe to your view that magic is just "anything goes." Magic has to have some set of rules. If we followed your subscription to the art of magic, magicians could just simply give away all their secrets to just anybody and that would be OK with you. I just don't think art is "anything goes" as every art has some kind set of rules to make it the art that it is. And with all due respects, I strenulously object to your subscription to the art of magic. The art of magic, like most arts, have some basic rules and principles to it, that make it the art of magic. Now keeping an open mind for creativity in the art of magic is OK, but there are still some basic rules and principles to the art regardless.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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On 2012-10-02 06:48, General_Magician wrote: That's not my view at all. In fact, I haven't expressed any view on magic whatsoever. It's quite curious. You're being ironic, right? |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts
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On 2012-10-02 08:15, stoneunhinged wrote: And I never appointed myself the "magic sheriff" at all either. I was just expressing my views on magic. It's OK for a magician to express his views on magic and just because he does, doesn't mean that he thinks he is the "magic sheriff." From what I gathered on your post, it sounds like you believe in a "no rules or principles" approach to magic where "just anything goes" because you think magic "should" not be defined. So, if you don't believe in magic being defined at all, then what exactly are your views on magic? Keep in mind, I think it's important to be open minded and creative in the art of magic (and that means not being hindered by too many rules or hard definitions of magic but some rules and principles are important), but I also think there are some rules and principles to the art as well.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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I am of the same view as the General. Which is the same as that in "Our Magic" it seems to me.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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On 2012-10-02 08:20, General_Magician wrote: Once again you are attributing to me all sorts of things that I neither believe nor think, and that I clearly did not say. It's rather bizarre. Shame on you. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts
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Once again you are attributing to me all sorts of things that I neither believe nor think, and that I clearly did not say. It's rather bizarre. Well, you were doing the same thing. What do you expect? You attributed that I somehow appointed myself the "magic sheriff" when in reality I did no such thing.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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FatHatter Regular user I'm here you're there and that's that. 137 Posts
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On 2012-09-30 16:41, Dougini wrote: Looks like a great example of what is said. Now I'm wondering how you said it. |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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On 2012-10-02 11:05, General_Magician wrote: LOL! |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts
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Is this second page what Alanis Morissette calls "ironic?"
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts
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On 2012-10-02 11:31, critter wrote: I don't see that critter, sorry. I just thought it was rude that somebody would implicitly attribute that somehow I view myself as the "magic sheriff" when in reality I did no such thing. There is nothing wrong with criticism, but their is a difference between destructive and constructive criticism. Stoneunhinged was out of line and was making somewhat destructive criticsm that wasn't even true and was unwarranted. Then, he gets upset when I basically dish back what he gave to me initially where I made attributions to him that might not be necessarily true. OK, maybe you were right, at least from the way I see it. The irony that stoneunhinged would make accusations or attributions to me that are not true and then would get upset and "shame" me, when I do the same to him (or maybe I was right, I don't know, stoneunhinged hasn't offerred his point of view though he is quick to read the point of view of others and criticize without offerring up his point of view and why) in return. He has no right or moral authority to shame anybody when he does the same thing. I guess that's the irony that Alanis was singing about.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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Lighten up, General, and have a beer:
:stout: I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. |
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WagsterMagic Special user Myrtle Beach, SC 639 Posts
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And I find it funny that the one person who originally started this post hasn't made any comments lately... Must have offended him by not agreeing with what he said
The Wagsters: World Class Magic & Illusion
www.wagstermagic.com |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts
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On 2012-10-02 11:56, stoneunhinged wrote: It's OK, don't worry about it. I'll be happy to drink a beer!
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts
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On 2012-10-02 11:51, General_Magician wrote: I thought that it was explicit, not implicit: Quote: On 2012-10-02 06:39, stoneunhinged wrote: |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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Oh come on, Bill. Stir the doodie right after we've kissed and made up. Shame on you, too.
(On another note: did you ever update the thread about your equestrian-related contest in Europe? Inquiring minds want to know what happened.) |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts
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On 2012-10-02 12:57, stoneunhinged wrote: I don't like how you phrased that, so you're obviously wrong. ;) Quote:
On 2012-10-02 12:57, stoneunhinged wrote: Not since September 10. I'm on it. |
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Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts
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On 2012-10-02 11:10, FatHatter wrote: I told her that her face makes time stand still for me, and that she is more beautiful than a stellar nova! That was well received. Didn't work. She married my friend. No problem. At least I didn't get slapped... 
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FatHatter Regular user I'm here you're there and that's that. 137 Posts
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On 2012-10-03 14:02, Dougini wrote: ...or married! 
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Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2597 Posts
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Just to continue with the slight tangent this thread started to veer down a few posts up...
Regarding defining magic and whether it should or shouldn't be something in particular. My view is that magic is (or can be) an art and art can be whatever you want it to be. 'General_Magician', in a reply to another person's post wrote; "I just don't subscribe to your view that magic is just "anything goes." Magic has to have some set of rules. If we followed your subscription to the art of magic, magicians could just simply give away all their secrets to just anybody and that would be OK with you." Hopefully General_Magician and I won't come to computer keyboard typed blows over this but my view is ... anything does go... and that magic doesn't have to have a set of rules... and yes magicians could just give away all their secrets to just anybody... But.... just because I think that doesn't mean I'd be OK with it. I might be OK with it but I might not be. It would depend on the what, how, why, etc... Penn and Teller give away (some of) the secrets of magic but I happen to be one of those that think they do it in a way that doesn't harm magic or magicians. I think that their performances (including those where they commit 'exposures') have help promote magic as an art to the general public and that they have been enormously good for magic and magicians. Magicians that do shows themed around gambling demonstrations often give away secrets too. If I approved of any exposures or not would again depend on the what, how, why, etc... The Masked Magician also gave away secrets and with regard to that particular what, how, why etc I am not left feeling OK. To be honest there are only a few specific exposures that bothered me. My main issue with the this particular magician's performance was it perpetuated the idea in the viewers mind that the performance of illusions is about nothing more than the secret. I think it was this, rather than the revelation of the secrets, that did more damage to those that perform illusions. But my distaste for the The Masked Magician isn't his problem, it's my problem. Others might feel the same... or stronger... others again might not be bothered at all... or think the program had a 100% beneficial impact on magic. Likewise there will be those that disagree with my view about Penn and Teller and see them as bad for magic and that's their prerogative an their problem... not Penn and Teller's. I have no doubt that virtually every performer will have someone somewhere that thinks what they are doing is being done wrongly, badly, misguidedly or against their set of rules. As soon as you start to prescribe a set of rules to say what some particular art can't be there will be someone that comes along and shows the world that it in fact can be that. For me that's one of the great ways our art advances. Of course, if magic can be anything to anyone it then begs the question of how do we know it when we see it? Well we don't. It's magic if someone says it is... and we are free to disagree and shake our heads in disbelief. It's a terribly unsatisfying thought and it's one I often have as I walk round the Tate Modern or Contemporary art museums looking at the 'art'.
Or we can look to consensus. There will be many cases where we all agree that, 'this is magic and this is a magician', but there will often be occasions where this is not the case. Is the Amazing Jonathan a magician? Is Joe Pasquale a magician? Is Uri Geller a Magician? Is Art Benjamin a magician? Is an act doing a short spot where they just do the nail up the nose and the incredible shrinking or growing head illusion a magician? Yes?...No?... Does it matter?... What's to be gained from saying magic should be this and not that? Of course if I select another set of conditions of what makes for a magician and judge these to be the right ones everyone else's will then be the wrong ones and we can then set about being dogmatic about it and embark on the sort of jousting match this thread was originally talking about. ...Oh, and by the way.... if you disagree with me... you are, of course, just plain wrong. 
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
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Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts
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On 2012-09-30 16:41, Dougini wrote: Further examples: She's a VISION; not a SIGHT. She looks like a million bucks; she doesn't look wrinkled and green. She looks like a breath of Spring; not 'the end of a long, hard Winter.' She has eyes like limpid pools; not 'watery eyes.' She has 'a profile like a Roman goddess'; not a 'honkin' big hooter.' She looks like an ANGEL; not 'something from beyond.' and so it goes...
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
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Posted: Oct 2, 2012 10:48 am 
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