|
|
|
|||
| Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4 [Next] | ||||||||||
Gary Kosnitzky.jpg "View Profile") Elite user 409 Posts 
|
Bill,
It is exactly because of plagiarisers like Lawrence O that I pose my question in my original post: "I am about to publish the first book on the 'traditional style' Hindu Cups and Balls. I have spent many dollars and many years of my life devoted to this one trick. Frankly I am disgusted watching the nimrods online exposing magic. I am disgusted by the counterfeiters who have absolutely no consciences and are only out to make a buck. In fact I am starting to get disgusted by most magicians in general. I have met very few who have any ethics. I would like to share this work with those that have the same passion as I have for this trick and are hardcore-serious about mastering this-NOT the whole world. I would appreciate any input or ideas on how I can do this and still keep the 'work' sub rosa". |
|||||||||
cirrus Inner circle his minions made 1751 Posts
|
Still... my question went unanswered.
"No offense, but the guy is going to sell out a 5000 year tradition to everybody who wants it, and you as an indian are ok with that? " What gives Gary the right to publish a 5000 year old routine to the general public? Especially if it was so secretly guarded for 5000 years? (I'm playing the devil's advocate, I don't care about the indian cups and balls) |
|||||||||
|
Gary Kosnitzky Elite user 409 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2012-10-03 13:28, cirrus wrote: I will answer you. First off I am not giving this to anybody that wants it. Secondly the fact that I have 2 hands and can write, gives me the right to write about anything I want to write about. |
|||||||||
Donnie Buckley V.I.P. Cleveland, Ohio 1123 Posts
|
If urge anyone interested in comprehending the uniqueness of Gary's work to please first read "Net of Magic, Wonders and Deceptions in India" by Lee Siegel.
|
|||||||||
|
Gary Kosnitzky Elite user 409 Posts
|
Now, since my thread has been hijacked by trolls I am ending my participation in it.
If anyone is interested in the Hindu Cups and Balls I can be reached at: info@jadoosmagic.com Thank you for the wonderful suggestions, Gary |
|||||||||
billappleton Inner circle Los Gatos, California 1154 Posts
|
I don't see any trolls here, just the regular posters to the forum.
It's kinda hard to characterize magicians as disgusting unethical greedy psychopathic counterfeiters and then expect to receive lots of usefull suggestions, because we are for the most part all magicians here. You DID however receive some pretty good answers to your question, in between the unnecessary squabbling. Good luck with your project, it sounds interesting, please keep us posted. |
|||||||||
Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts
|
Gary, I am one of those who are serious. Magic has become an almost common thing now. Most tricks are rehashes of old tricks. YouTube is filled with the magic I used to do. I would never make any claims against my friends here in the Café, you've been wonderful friends!
I really feel your frustration. As I, myself could never afford those cups & balls you offered, I stand by you in your desire to keep Cheppum Panthum among those who would keep and respect it the most. I also appreciate Maharajademagia for coming in and recognizing Gary for the man he is, and what he has done. Friends, this is just magic, not brain surgery. When someone like Gary is willing to offer unique knowledge and perspective in magic, I myself, welcome it with open arms! I don't care about its originality. I do, but that is not in question here. If you do decide to print it, I hope you consider me, Gary. I certainly won't be exposing it or disrespecting it in any way! Doug |
|||||||||
|
maharajademagia Regular user 127 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2012-10-02 14:25, cirrus wrote: Cirrus, I belong to the new school of Indian Magicians. I firmly believe that secret is the essence of magic and it should not be divulged to one and all. But excessive secrecy is of no use that the secret of the tricks ends with the only one who knew it and did not teach it to anyone. I believe, and Gary too is of the same opinion that the Hindu Cups and Balls is the mother of all tricks and was born in India. Though a lot of books say that Cups and Balls was born in Egypt, the investigating magicians now know that this is not true. Bill Palmer too is of the same opinion and who knows more about Cups and Balls then he does. There is also another angle to it. If I write book and publish it in India, it will not have the same impact if an American magician writes it in the USA. Who better than Gary to do it? There are so many ticks which were invented in India but now are attributed to the Chinese or other nationalities. One example is the Linking Rings and another Chinese Sticks. But so many tricks are of Indian origin and hundreds of years old like the Hindu Basket Trick and are being performed all over the world. I as an Indian have nothing against any magician performing it. But I would be very sorry if a trick vanishes like the Indian Rope Trick, till its partial revival now. As they say you share an idea with me and I share it another with you and we both end up with two ideas. If more and more magicians learn it all over the world it would not vanish. That’s the whole idea behind all this. Gary is not irresponsible and he will not commercialize it, it would be for limited consumption and I am sure he would not give away all the techniques. I at least hope so. (I am being mean now). And for God’s sake it is not a state secret, to be defended by CIA or RAW. At the end of the day it is only a trick. By the way a few magicians in India are also working on preserving the tricks performance of old wandering magicians by making videos and learning tricks from them and performing the tricks. This tradition of the wandering magician is bound to die as the secrecy code is very strong and income very low. They just survive at bear minimum in shanty towns and there is no help from the government. |
|||||||||
|
maharajademagia Regular user 127 Posts
|
Gary, I realize that both Lawrence O funsway are late joiners and are not aware of the earlier threads, so let's make them a part of it not alienate them from this. If they are here it is because they have some interest in it. And guys I mean no offence to you but Lawrence O for some of us Eddie Joseph is not God. We do not negate his contribution and his books, and he did a great service to Indian Magic but they are not the last word on Indian or Hindu Magic. I would consider P.C. Sorcar's books more authentic.
Though he is friendly with the Indian wandering magician somewhere he despised them too. On page 40 of his book Magic and Mysteries of India though he is fascinated by the trick he also mentions that it is not because of the "character of the trick, rather than the manipulation itself". For me the street performers are excellent in all aspects of the trick thought nowadays they perform only with two cups as no one has the time for the full fur cup version or even the three cup version. In "The Hindu Cups" he writes "The few operational basic moves upon which the trick depends, are original with me, and differ from the traditional Hindu technique". Strangely in the first book I mentioned the drawings show the authentic Hindu Cups and Balls, but in the latter the pictures of the metal cups are a far cry. Was he unable to get an authentic set in all these years he was in India? Bill has all the Tayade's versions, which are collector’s item these days. Perhaps it is a matter of interest and dedication or there is something else which one can read between the lines. What amuses me the most is the subtitle of the book, "An Expose of the Greatest Mystery in the Orient" done with shallow metal bowls and rubber valves from feeding bottles. I still thank him for the contribution he made to the Hindu Magic. And finally Gary, take it cool, and don't take it too personally. And now for once get that book out, this trailer is getting like an eternal wait for the new iPhone. |
|||||||||
|
maharajademagia Regular user 127 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2012-09-27 09:44, Lawrence O wrote: Je parle un petite peu de fançaise. Can you please educate us more on Jack Karlow and his work on Hindu Cups and Balls. Where can I have access to it. Does his not having any heirs directly put it into public domain or perhaps the publisher can have rights to the book. Please do write back. |
|||||||||
|
cirrus Inner circle his minions made 1751 Posts
|
I understand the issue better now, but I hope the price will be high enough so that only working professionals have access to it. I can't pay high prices, but I don't want some hack on youtube performing the 5000 year tradition. Magic is a passion of mine, and I don't like youtubers explaining how beautiful tricks are done, the second they know the secret.
|
|||||||||
|
maharajademagia Regular user 127 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2012-10-04 07:22, cirrus wrote: Internet and YouTube are just instruments, we can use them according to our will. We cannot fight technology so the sooner we start living with it the better it is. The best is to use it to our benefit. Thanks to this technology you and I are discussing this trick. Even if Gary does explain the trick on YouTube few would be able to do it or would have the patience to sit and practise for hours. Thought the moves are simple they take hours and hours of practise time to learn them. Unfortunately few are willing to spend so many hours to first learning the technique and then applying it to a series of sequences which have to be learned with patter and a flawless dumping, loading and reloading. I know how David Copperfield flies, but can I do it so well that it looks like poetry? Few would really do it and I am afraid that it would rather become a collectors item rather then a learners manual. |
|||||||||
Bapu Regular user with a paltry 161 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2012-09-27 14:09, Gary Kosnitzky wrote: In light of your strong feelings concerning the protection of the secrets connected with this tradition, I would say that personal mentoring is your only solution. Publish nothing in any format. Get non disclosure agreements from each student. There is nothing wrong with that.
Bapu practices law and conjuring in the Great Smoky Mountains of East Tennessee.
|
|||||||||
|
Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2012-10-04 06:05, maharajademagia wrote: Jack Karlow was a French professional magicians of eastern origin. He gathered his life work in two books and his Hindu Cups routien is at the end of the second volume published at the time by Richard Vollmer (I think). His routine has new effects and it will be easy for you to understand for each phase is described with a lot of clear (even if artistically lousy) sketches.
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
|
|||||||||
|
Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2012-10-03 16:40, Dougini wrote: So would I and you would be impressed to know of the number of people who shared and still do it with me (and a few others) in the PM without having ever been betrayed. However how to take with an open mind somebody who WITHOUT GIVING A HINT about what he is bringing as new and being an original a contribution, starts by insulting previous writers and the community in saying "I am disgusted watching the nimrods online exposing magic. I am disgusted by the counterfeiters who have absolutely no consciences and are only out to make a buck. In fact I am starting to get disgusted by most magicians in general. I have met very few who have any ethics." As I reminded in an earlier post Eddie Joseph was a real expert in Hindu Magic and is still recognized as such there. He had been travelling all over India and made a very big reputation there before moving to the UK. So any claim to come with something stating that everything before had no value and insulting the present performers is not the most encouraging approach... IMHO
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
|
|||||||||
Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2012-10-05 12:34, Bapu wrote: I very much agree! Certainly, the personal approach follows what has evidently been the tradition for those 5000 years. One thing for sure, I am now highly interested in learning all I can about this subject. Also, while I believe I understand Gary's frustration in the OP and take no personal umbrage, I have been fortunate to meet many magicians who follow an ethical code. I believe much of the wholesale exposure comes from wannabes, with a couple of major exceptions... Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
|
|||||||||
|
Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts
|
SO these people are not real Indian magicians just because they don't follow the tradition that Gary is about to release with whatver restriction he is entitled to... ? They are just occidental interpretations of the Hindu magic and no one but Gary knows anything about magic from India ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZMKTgTiYaU&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5dVaSOwnro&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv7YNGwtCE8&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARa4EPCLf2Q&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKHB9m6Hq60&feature=related Hence I repeat my question: what makes what Gary expects to share (no matter with what restrictions) so different from what we know about Hindu Magic? ... even if it's marginal. if he comes on the café for sharing some knowledge he has or communicate about it, let him share it without disclosure (and if possible without insulting every previous authors and or potential customers).
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
|
|||||||||
|
Gary Kosnitzky Elite user 409 Posts
|
After reading everyone’s thoughts and ideas,
I now realize I must continue to keep this out of reach of the general public. If someone really wants to learn this they will find me. Thank you all for your input. |
|||||||||
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9987 Posts
|
Yet, the thread has been valuable. On one of LO's referred uTube videos I got an idea that can be incorporated in other effects.
Magic begets magic if one allows it
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
|||||||||
|
FatHatter Regular user I'm here you're there and that's that. 137 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2012-10-07 23:13, Gary Kosnitzky wrote: :applause: |
|||||||||
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Any ideas or input appreciated. (4 Likes) | ||||||||||
| Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4 [Next] | ||||||||||
Posted: Oct 3, 2012 05:26 pm 
| [ Top of Page ] |
|
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
|
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < 
|