It kills me to see our items ( bizarre ) in open sales in the lets make a deal section or on eb@y these items are to valuable to be used by every hack that toss out a youtube vid destroying what is art to us. can we try to get a sticky for dealers? and another for creaters and writers? that way they stay in the top and those of us that need to find them know exactly where they are? and can we as pacticioners moderate our own and police our own? after all who knows what we do better then us? we are not the norm, we are not the main stream. we are the few.

what do you think?

Yeah,let's keep everyone else from learning,let's stop the youth,and let's stop the ladies from learning,while we are at it too!

Where in the heck,would we all be,if someone did not share,teach us,allow us to learn ?????

I agree,there should be some restraints on youtube!

Myself,I love to see the upcoming youth learning,And I am all for,WOMEN !

We do not need this...I am better than others,CRAP!

I say lets,teach,share with others,that want to learn!

GARY

Amen!

The only problem I have is finding bizarre stuff in the general for sale section, because I'm not looking for anything other than bizarre stuff. it would be nice to have an easier way to find stuff for sale that bizarrists would be interested in without blocking other people from viewing/participating. Mayb e a subforum for bizarrists on the sale forum.

I am more then willing to teach anyone that asks it. I am more then willing to share with any that seek it. what I am not willing to do is let something that is so strong be destroyed or trivialized just because someone does not want to put in the work to learn it. nor am I willing to stand by as these guys give away the secrets to routines costing large amounts of money and depriving people of their livelihood just to get views on youtube and look cool. if you want to be a dentist you learn the hard way through hours of training and study. the same with any legitament field.
magic is the only field where you can call your self a magician and not have any real skills what so ever to base that on. I do not think I'm better then everyone or anyone for that matter. I do believe that I have put in more years perfecting my performance then most of the youtube posters have been alive. I do think that the items created for the bizarre/ story teller genres do not fit in a normal act as it destroys both aspects of the performance set. if they want to learn let them come and take part not seal and expose. does that make sense?

I actually support Michael's view in this. I don't like it to see some beautiful effect butchered, but that is with most magic. Most magicians think they are doing something beautiful, when actually they are butchering the art by doing triviallity next to triviallity without having anything connect with the previous something (a bowling ball production and then a flaoting table). They may both be exceptionally performed, but he still misses the consistency.

I would love to keep the stuff in our private midst, but... I learned about bizarre while browsing a booksection on a general magicdealer-site, so it would be quite hypocrit to say that people shouldn't be learning.

So it's a knife with two edges. I hate to see things butchered, but I hate to see people remain bad at what they do.

To me the thrill of the chase is what drives me. I saw the magic, I wanted to learn the magic, I looked for it. sought it out. devoured it. I didn't have the access to the youtube. I bought and paid for every item I had or I went to a library and checked out books. the art of it was and still is sacred to me.

there seems to be a natural progression to magic as far as what form your in. you can not just jump right to the top and skip all the remedial steps or everyone suffers.

but back to the original post that seems to have been worded wrong and has started a flair of temper.

I personally would like to have a stick where our (bizarre/story magic) can post a thred for an effect they want to market. a sticky for the creators and writers to get feed back on items they are thinking of putting out. with it stuck to the top it will not be lost as so many really good posts are in here.

Because,I like women! To answer your other post!

Want to throw that in every now and then,so everyone does not think we are all, a bunch of geeks ! lol

Cirrus,
And,maybe we are all not as great at doing what we do,as we would like to think!

~G

Most in the bizarre section have a sense of theatre. They know about character and the other stuff that comes with theatre. I have read (thanks to my earlier question-asking) many books on theatre and all the parts that come with it. I studied magic and theatre as the arts they are. I'm only a first year student in this (although I have been doing magic for 7 years now). It's now that I started to study magic, before I was looking for tricks to perform, now I want effects that affect people.

Lol I like women as well my friend. I do what I do to support a group of women, my wife my daughters. I make a merger living performing magic full time. it hurts me when I go to a performance and everyone knows what I'm going to do because it was given away on youtube.

as to mixing the types of magic....

it would be like constructing a sentence with 13 different languages. if you speak two or more languages you may get some3 of the words but the rest would be lost on you. so it would hold no value for you or the others listening to it. it would not make sense. it would be irreverent to you.

pick a style and stay with it for the entirety of the performance. then if you choose creat a different show using the other style. that way both have relevance to your sitters and to you.
asw to not being as good as we think we are, I agree for the most part. we are constantly learning and growing. it makes it harder when we are constantly undermined and have to change cource mid way through that learning experience because some idiot told everyone what we are going to do, or did it so poorly it waS THE SAME AS TELLING THEM. the stuff I perform is not for beginers nor is most of the items being produced with this nitch market in mind. it assumes and rightly so that you have some back ground in performance. and can do the basic principles with some ability.

Why make it easy - like all good horror stories - like the odd weird shop - the strange suk - the merchant selling a lemarchand box - the forgotten painting in the attic - the m r jamesian article at a garage sale

I custom make or get custom items when I can as well as take items from outlaw Lebanon and alchemy etc and then warp them further - I also have taken card boxes and so on and warped them up for those who have the carcosa collection items

I actually say keep it mysterious - live the illusion - live the illusion - mass marketed bizarre will always be crap -

Hmmm anyone still got carcosa items? I should set a new contest soon - I got a few plays left and arcanas and such - but those who know know you can't buy em you got to earn them by creating mystery art.... But that is just me

I kinda of like looking at the buy and sell as a fun search - and who the heck will buy these items except we kooks? And if a fellow mystery artisan gets it at east I know it's in a good home

Just saying

I once encountered a girl for whom I was doing magic (when I started out). I did an ACR and she told me her brother did it also. I stopped and left. It was a good thing actually, because it taught me to develop my own style and never to perform something off the shelf. Never held a grudge against the girl because she was able to see through my performance. From her, I learned a valuable lesson.

Perhaps this time I could get in on the contest good DR. the items I saw were way fun.

I to do not do things off the shelf I make them mine with added items and such, but a magician can see through most routines enough to pick it apart and perform it.

I think Michael makes a very good point here and one that is in in danger of getting lost.
It is also an idea that I have talked to other major dealers about (who I will not name, unless they want to come forward.)
A sticky (or some such other mechanism ) for each major dealer would be a very healthy idea. For the following reasons.
1. All dealers would be able to 'support the Café' by making a *reasonable* donation ( by reasonable I mean a donation that would not preclude interesting work on financial grounds)
2. It would stop all the 'things we (dealers) do to make sure people get to hear about our work. I have two truly fantastic pieces coming out in September. I know they are going to rock people here, and I am very excited about it. You are *** right that I want you all to hear about it. At the same time I want to hear what Outlaw, Lebanon, The Prof, and all the other guys are putting out. Having a dedicated area for each of these would allow me to see what everyone is bringing out.
3. It would reduce pollution, the main area of the forum could be given over to discussion of the principles of our art, rather than a bunch of dealers (including me!) jostling for the top of the page.
4. It would really benefit dealers ( who 'support the Café') far more that the current situation. I would like to put a post up saying Alchemy Moon is about to release this or that, this is what you get for your cash. Because there is no anxiety from dealers about bumping their threads, this could then be followed by genuine discussion and questions about the products. I really want to know what this new effect from Raven Darkskull is, so I go to their sticky and read genuine information and ask my questions, rather than having to read the same old hype. I am happy, and the dealer is happy as he s/he can concentrate on the real work.

This is a good idea Michael and one that would benefit the Café, the dealers and the community greatly.

There is another point made here that is also important, but I need to go and chew some sugar so I will be brief.
YouTube, mass communication, the masked magician, pirating, etc etc are a fact of life. Sure I would hate to see some 12 year old in a bandana saying 'yo, wastsup guys, Wankie D here, and today I is gonna perform da Cuss .cards for ya!' But what ya going to do?! I think we can all get too uptight about these things sometimes. I am not saying that this is not a problem, but it is a problem to which we do not have a solution, so why waste good neurones on it? This is what I think. Two people watch a video exposing how a thumb tip works. The first person says to himself - oh so that is how it is done! A month later he has forgotten and is still marvelling at how that magician pulled a silk from his empty fist ( or more creative area of his anatomy). The other guy is inspired and starts on the noble road and becomes the next David Berglas.

I'm working on a ritual for Samhain. My treasures will be present and in use.
Sorry, must run, Dagon calls.

Ah, you mean not a sticky but a forum in the good the bad and the garbage like penny recently got called mentally speaking

We could call it "unearthed arcana" or something - the latest items coming out from dealers and creators with reviews - making this forum more about presentations etc

YES!

They have a 'Latest & Greatest', too.

I hate to look through there and just see magic tricks,but I do look for something with a touch for,Spooky!

But,are we back too keeping it,for just us chosen?

Godzilla, if they want to perform the darker routines they know where to come. they will need to work for the gifts they are given with a bit of research. me asking for this is no different from others on here asking for terms to be edited for to keep things out of google. I am asking no less if they are sincere in the search then ill give them all I have but if they just want to know then forget it.