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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
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On 2012-10-05 00:02, General_Magician wrote: I wish you would stop bullying chessman into accepting your definition of bullying! |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Probably the most influential definition of bullying comes from the Norwegian psychologist Dan Olweus.
"Bullying is aggressive behavior that is intentional and that involves an imbalance of power. Most often, it is repeated over time." (Olweus was mainly interested in relationships between children.) We are certainly free to invent our own definitions, but I'm not sure what we gain. Where we most likely all agree is that the email was despicable, and she did well to take it on the way she did.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
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On 2012-10-05 13:30, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Yes on the first, no on the second. I wouldn't have given him the dignity of a response. Can you imagine how many nasty letters someone like Dan Rather got over the years? How many of you have ever read student evaluations of teachers. [Jeff shudders!] Real bullies need to be confronted, I think. Anonymous idiots ought to be ignored. Hey, it's just my opinion. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-05 13:47, stoneunhinged wrote: Fair enough.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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dave_matkin Inner circle 4522 Posts |
Darn my dyslexia ......
Feel free to bully me over this ........ I have miss quoted you so that you can see why I did a double take ....... It made me laugh so thought I would share..... Quote:
On 2012-10-05 10:45, General_Magician wrote: You know all this comes down to individual choice. If you think you are over weight and want to do something about it great.its ok for people you know and are friends to mention something if they are worried about you. Do it in the right way and it should not be a major problem. Just don't do it like the fat 'lady' on little Britain (you know the one). I have to agree with the thought that bully is a word that is poorly used and often not appropriate ..... Definitions are always important. Other over used words:- dyslexia / dyslexic I am sure you can think of many others....... |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
I remember Richard Simmons said, before he was a fitness guru, he was a comedic actor in Italy. And fat, really really fat. [To this day, he will not allow pictures of himself from that period to be used whereever he's going to make an appearance.] One day, he said he found a note pinned under the windshield wiper of his car;
Dear Richard; Fat people die young. Please don't die. And that's what started him on his fitness goal that he's still following today.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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I wish you would stop bullying chessman into accepting your definition of bullying! I am sorry! I don't want to be ACCUSED of anything but I just thought what guy did to the lady was wrong and as far as I am concerned it is bullying! It's just my OPINION. I do have a right to free speech! I don't want my first amendment rights to be bullied out of me! *joking around a little bit just in case anybody didn't pick up on that*
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
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On 2012-10-05 13:30, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: What we gain spacifically is the ability to further our own cause or our own opinion and the ability to stretch things to do so. This way we can be offended at will. You have to admit it makes things convienent rather than being held to certain words we all agree upon and having to be pidgen holed into that.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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Dear Richard; See, now that doesn't come across as bullying but more of genuine and honest concern for the individual. But the way this other guy wrote his email, really, it was a bit out of line and to me it was bullying. You can call it what you want, but most bullies seek to gain attention and the fact that this guy just went out of his way to offer what really amounted to destructive criticism which he was basically telling her she was not acceptable to society and that she was undeserving of her position in her job, I mean, that just reeks of bully tactics and the definition of what and why a bully would engage in such behavior. And it's not just me who holds this opinion, obviously some members of the news media also share the same opinion that I do. And I think they are right in this particular instance. I mean you don't necessarily have to engage in the same pattern of this kind of behavior over a period of time before it can possibly categorized as bullying. I have seen instances of bullying when the behavior only happenned just one time, but it was obvious to everybody (and not just me) that it was bullying. I think the safe thing for people to do is simply treat others as you would like to be treated and to be sensitive to how others would feel and it saves everybody a lot of trouble. And yes, sometimes somebody needs to be told something (for instance a doctor telling somebody they need to lose weight otherwise it could jeopardize their health) but it's the way and the manner in which you choose to say it that matters. Obviously, this guy who sent the email is not stupid. He had to have known that the fact he would go to the trouble of emailing a news anchor, somebody he doesn't know personally nor associate himself with and the way he phrased his email, that it wasn't going to be well recieved and was going to be percieved as offensive. Yet, he sent that email anyway. Why? Well, to me, it would seem he just wanted attention and he knew that by sending it to a TV personality who is a news anchor, he would get the attention he wanted, which attention is one of the reasons why bullies, bully. Really, her weight not that big of deal in her particular case and I think the guy knew that but chose to just make it a big deal anyway in his email, knowing full well it would be offensive to the recepient in the way he worded his email, but he worded his email that way because he knew it would attract attention.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-05 16:48, Dannydoyle wrote: :lol:
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Ohh come on though Danny. Why would this guy feel the need to email this TV personality and make such statements? If he honestly felt that this woman was setting a bad example simply and only because of her size, he is free to simply not watch the channel she appears on (and if he has children or a daughter, he is free to regulate what his children watch on TV if he feels it is inappropriate that the news anchor, only because of her size, sets a bad example for his children, nobody is forcing him to watch her show) TV without bothering to email this lady.
His purpose for going way out of his way to email a stranger whom he doesn't even know and who also happens to be a TV personality seems clear. It was not necessary for him to do so at all and his motive was not to "help" her or "help" the community. He needs to worry about himself and his family and not be worried about trying to get his 5 minutes of fame and make a name for himself by trying to "help" this lady (which if that is his way of "helping" people, it's understandable why this TV personality would not be interested in his "help"). I think he knew what he was doing was wrong, but simply just don't care about other people judging by the totality of the circumstances of this particular situation.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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Leland Inner circle St Louis 1180 Posts |
He is a bully that was trying to hide behind his computer. Glad he was called on it and now that they found him out he tries to change his story.
Life of Magic!
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
"Bullying is aggressive behavior that is intentional and that involves an imbalance of power."
Now THIS would be bullying. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/teacher-ri......823.html |
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts |
1/ She is overweight.
2/ Being overweight is bad for your health. His email seemed quite polite to me - he merely stated an opinion - an uncomfortable opinion for some, yes - but an opinion. If it traumatised her, it was not to such an extent she needed time off work for counselling - rather she made hay while the sun shone. Quote:
Now THIS would be bullying. I'm surprised kids are allowed to wear political advertising to school there - I'm pretty sure it would, at the very least, be discouraged here. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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On 2012-10-05 19:12, Leland wrote: Agreed.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-05 21:50, rockwall wrote: Agreed. While the issue of student free speech in the classroom has a confusing set of legal precedents, in this case there is no doubt in my mind that the student's free speech rights were violated, and I hope she sues and wins.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-06 08:33, landmark wrote: As always with these issues, remember that the student and the family can say whatever they want to the press, and the school is bound to silence for reasons of confidentiality. The student's story, if true as told, is troubling, and the teacher appears to be completely in the wrong. Problem is, we will never know if that is really how things played out.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
John, of course I am assuming that it happened as reported. If the teacher told the student that she had to change or leave her class as was reported then her rights were violated. Granted, the determination of facts is what a court is for.
Would the student be getting as much positive coverage from the conservative media if the student were wearing a shirt supporting someone else--or perhaps stating her pro-atheistic views? It's interesting to speculate. I would say, based on such incidents in the past the answer would be no. I think PCA** would rule. Still, this particular case is important if only to have it on the record that student political speech needs to be protected. **Politically Convenient Amnesia
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Schools have long had students remove shirts they found offensive or inflammatory for whatever reasons. Back when Marilyn Manson was first becoming infamous his shirts were banned at many schools and I was personally forced to turn my Nirvana T-Shirt inside out back in high school. (although my school officials were actually somewhat polite about it) Just like politics are considered inflammatory here, they may be there as well. I'm not saying it's right, just that it isn't without precedent.
As for the ridiculing and other stuff the teacher (allegedly) did, well teachers have done that to me in public school as well and I still think it's wrong and always have. I even had an ultra-religious art teacher pull me into his office and tell me I should be burned for wearing a pentagram necklace. In this same class other students drew cartoons of me catching flames in sunlight with the derogatory nicknames they called me written on them, and the teacher displayed them prominently in the classroom. There was other stuff but that's enough. So I really detest when a trusted school official abuses their power because I've seen it too many times.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Landmark and critter I agree completely. On the face of it, this teacher was completely out of line, and so was critter's art teacher.
Experience has taught me, however, that the public can say whatever they want about schools and a few other public institutions, and privacy laws make it impossible for the institutions to tell their side of the story except behind closed doors.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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