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Mary Mowder Inner circle Sacramento / Elk Grove, CA 3659 Posts |
That would be a fine attitude if we didn't have to see over the top displays in public spaces.
I don't think a little concern over how this effects Kids and how the sugar effects their health is entirely misplaced. I'm just hoping for a little pull back and thought on the subject. -Mary Mowder |
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Kevin Connolly Inner circle New Jersey 1329 Posts |
There was much thought and great answers above.
Please visit my website.
www.houdinihimself.com Always looking buy or trade for original Houdini, Hardeen and escape artist items. I'm interested in books, pitchbooks and ephemera. Email [email]hhoudini@optonline.net[/email] |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-07 18:19, Dannydoyle wrote: I think Mary agreed with this in the OP. Quote:
Bottom line I'm not for outlawing anything but a little pull back from the gruesome aspects that have gotten way out of hand and a little more common sense about the candy would help a lot. Fair enough to both of you. In the US and Canada, Halloween remains very popular and very profitable. And unless the profits drop, I don't see any change on the horizon. Is Halloween a big deal anywhere off the North American continent? John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Zombie Magic Inner circle I went out for a beer and now have 8733 Posts |
In such a P.C. world I'm glad to see Halloween hasn't been touched.
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-08 20:32, Zombie Magic wrote: Depends on where you live. Spend some time in the Bible belt during Halloween. The more traditional celebrations seem to be going underground. Certain religious groups are doing everything they can to control how it is observed. Most schools do not recognize it, as I knew growing up as a kid in the Midwest. Churches are appropriating certain aspects of the holidays to their own agenda. Trick or Treat has become Trunk or Treat, where all the families gather at the church and line up their cars with trunks open and give out goodies from there. Halloween parties have largely given way to "harvest", or "fall" festivals. Costumes are allowed, but not scary ones. Haunted houses and haunted trails are being set up by churches and called "Hell houses", where you have the chance to see what happens to you if you are a "bad" person. Acknowledgement of ghosts, zombies, vampires, and living skeletons is not encouraged because it implies that the dead can rise without deity assistance. Witches practice witchcraft of course. They are worse than Harry Potter. And God forbid if you should dress up as a devil with red horns and a pitchfork. If you think this is not PC at its best, you haven't spent any time in the South where the churches own politics.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-08 20:32, Zombie Magic wrote: Look, all Mary was saying is that the gore aspect is being overdone. She wasn't advocating "touching" Halloween through P.C. But if someone was thinking about decorating their house this year by putting a recreation of a car accident in their driveway--with mutilated bodies and splattered brains and a dead baby--then she wants you to know that she thinks it's in poor taste. I do too. Once I joined the tattooed, I started buying books and magazines about tattoos. Just last week I saw a tattoo with a person holding a gun to the place where the head is supposed to be, and where the head is supposed to be is a small explosion of blood. A suicide tattoo? That's just wrong. Now, I wouldn't advocate some kind of P.C. law that forbids people from getting suicide tattoos. But I don't personally have to find them cool. Apparently there are some people today who think that every kind of human violence ought to be illustrated for our amusement. Well: we are not amused. |
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Zombie Magic Inner circle I went out for a beer and now have 8733 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-08 22:12, Michael Baker wrote: I lived in the south in the 60's −70's, in many notches of the Bible Belt. The religious communities were quite upfront about their racism, unlike the north were it was more covert. How I pine for the days of dry counties and faux moral ethics...... |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
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On 2012-10-09 02:38, stoneunhinged wrote: While I am a big fan of Halloween, I agree wholeheartedly with this. It seems there is an inability to understand the difference between scary and gory; between terror and horror.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-08 22:12, Michael Baker wrote: This is an 8-part strip which dealt with exactly that concept; http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp10052006.shtml This is the father of the main character. He does not tolerate fools gently.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-07 19:14, Woland wrote: Bit of a stretch there I think Woland. That movie was, as I'm sure you remember, fairly hallucinatory and the midnight showings had so much funny smoke in the air that whether you planned it or not, you left the theatre feeling pretty high. Anyway, it was all just strange and trippy, and really didn't register as violence, but more surrealism, like Dali's Andalusian Dog. The mainstream movies that were more celebratory of violence, and taboo breaking for the era, were Peckinpah's The Wild Bunch, and the original Straw Dogs. But I think the basic point is this: in a highly militarized country that depends on violence to keep itself running, there has to be a numbing of human feeling to live with the reality of it everyday. The way to sensation then, is to try to juice oneself up with more and more graphic images. There needs to be some conscious outlet for the forbidden repressed knowledge of the violence with which the society is lubricated.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-09 06:48, ed rhodes wrote: :)
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
With all that kids of today are exposed to I think Halloween is a mute point. Not to go in to detail and derail a topic but think back on many topics discused here and see how really tame Halloween is campared to what kids are exposed to 24/7/365.
A lot more to worry about than overdosing on candy. Not that it is a good thing but nothing to get all up in arms about. There are a lot more places we can put an effort to help out kids than, don't eat a lot of candy. We are starting to sound like New York city as to what you are allowed to sell.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-09 12:26, acesover wrote: This depends on who you are and where you live. When my wife and I (as well as most other parents we knew) were raising kids, we did what we could to shelter them from certain things. Their minds are simply not able to process such things in a healthy way. I think the logic that Mary brought to this is for the same reason any good parent would not want their young children to see extremely graphic movies. As parents, we have a choice in what comes on the TV, and what movies we allow our kids to see. There are warning labels on music CDs too, when the content dictates it. It does not censor someone's ability to produce such content, so your comparison to the NYC thing is full of holes. But it does alert people as to the content so that they are not unwittingly or unwillingly subjected to it. I am all about freedoms, but don't feel the right includes being able to subject others to your own beliefs. If you smoke, I won't try to stop you. If you blow smoke around me, I will. When some quite horrible things are openly displayed in people's yards, and up and down the aisles of lots of stores, it subjects anyone to having to view it, impressionable kids not excluded. Look at the Halloween decorations that are designed with children in mind, compared to those that are at the opposite end of the spectrum. There is a time and place for everything, and times and places where the same is inappropriate.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-09 13:21, Michael Baker wrote: I do not disagree with you about protecting your children from seeing certain things. But as you yourself expressed go up and down the aisles of a food store and check out the news racks and headlines on Scandal Sheets, Check out the advertisements on TV for clothes and other items that I won't mention as to being suggestive and also the content of the movies and comedy on prime time TV not to mention the topics discused on talk shows during the day and I can go on and on, and we have people worrying about Halloween costumes and eating some candy. Halloween comes once a year. The other thingsImention are with us every day of the year, in any newspaper, on TV, and in magazines all of which kids ae exposed no matter how hard you tryto censor them. While I believe kids should not be allowed to have access to these things, all I am saying is that they are a much bigger problem than Halloween costumes and Halloween gore that acomes once a year. Also I am not sure you knew what I was referring to when I mentioned NYC. I was referring to not being able to buy a large soda. You mention as to what any parent would want. I agree with you 100% about shielding them from certain things that you believe they should not see. But do you really believe that Halloween presents more danger than to what they are exposed to on a daily basis? That is what I am referring too. There is simply way more things that parents should be concerned about than Halloween, and kids dressing up for one day. As you and I both agree just look all around. I am definitely opposed to what they are exposed to on newstands and on many of the shelves in stores but not so much about Halloween which comes once a year. Also lets get it straight in our minds which kids we are talking about. Are we talking about 3 to 7, 10 to 12, or 14 to 17? All of these are still kids, and what they are allowed to do and purchase, and the decisions they are allowed to make without parental consent are much more serious than Halloween costumes and Halloween gore and I belive we can all agree on that. That is my point. Where on the scale of things things that affect children does Halloween costumes and Halloween gore fall compared to what they are exposed to every day? My guess is that on a scale of 1 to 10 it is around a 2.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-09 13:51, acesover wrote: I know exactly what you meant. It was all over the news for days. Quote:
There are mixed themes here. Nobody is saying (especially me) that Halloween is a bad thing for kids. I grew up on it, and it certainly didn't make a wreck of my life. But, what most parents would probably want (not all, but I suspect most), would be that their kids be exposed to certain things in life, and as those parents dictate. They'd simply want to know that their kids would be mature enough to handle it. This goes to your request to define kids by age. The same sensibilities would be used by any kid show performer, especially if he wanted to last in the business. There are certain things that you can say, do and show in front of older kids that you can't (or shouldn't) in front of the littler ones. When I was a small kid, maybe 5 or 6, there were a few things that I saw on TV shows that scared me to death. In retrospect, they were pretty benign, but it was certainly a good litmus test of where my threshold was. As I got older, I actually began to relish the adrenaline rush from being scared, and it was about that time that I became fascinated with the theatrical aspect of it. It was easy for me to process because I understood what it really was. The fabric of Halloween is not what is being discussed here, although I question if you have accepted that point. What shows up on TV is controllable as far as parents letting their kids watch it. A lot parents (as mentioned above) probably do not plop their kids in front of a TV show that will be openly displaying human carnage, overt sexual acts, and anything else they themselves determine (by their own right to do so) that they don't want their kids to see it. But if you are driving down the street and suddenly their is a yard filled with bloody body parts, it's kind of hard to keep your kids from witnessing it at the same time. You mention newsstands, etc. but do not give any concrete examples. From what I have seen, carnage and other offensive graphics are not openly displayed. Halloween props displaying random body parts are. I would object to stores displaying such things in sequestered areas. back when video rental places were first becoming mainstream popular, some of them also carried adult videos. But they were not out in the open, if kids were welcome at the store. As far as what may show up on checkout magazines headlines, kids are usually older before they understand what it is they are reading, should they be in a position to do so. I'd suspect that if they are with their parents at the checkout aisles, their attention is probably on the candy bars, not trying to find out who's boinking who. I'm not going into that candy side of the argument, because it's outside the scope of my participation in this discussion.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
[quote]On 2012-10-09 12:00, Michael Baker wrote:
Haunted houses and haunted trails are being set up by churches and called "Hell houses", where you have the chance to see what happens to you if you are a "bad" person. Acknowledgement of ghosts, zombies, vampires, and living skeletons is not encouraged because it implies that the dead can rise without deity assistance. Witches practice witchcraft of course. They are worse than Harry Potter. And God forbid if you should dress up as a devil with red horns and a pitchfork. If you think this is not PC at its best, you haven't spent any time in the South where the churches own politics. [quote]This is an 8-part strip which dealt with exactly that concept; http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp10052006.shtml This is the father of the main character. He does not tolerate fools gently. Quote:
:) Thanks, I hoped someone would like it.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
I guess I just mised the point and I still do about your comment about NYC because here is your response and I do not see how it pertains to a biga container of soda being sold: <<There are warning labels on music CDs too, when the content dictates it. It does not censor someone's ability to produce such content, so your comparison to the NYC thing is full of holes>> I guess I just missed youir point. We are talking about someones right to purchase a laargae soft drink and another persons right to sell such a drink.
For the most part I would say we agree on what children should be exposed to and what they should not. However that is not the point of this discussion. It is the concern of people who see a once a year event, Halloween being a bad thing for children because they see some gore and scarey things. All I am saying is that I feel that there are way more important things to fear your children being exposed to than that. Now of course you are being more specific in your statements and pointing out "graphic views" only and leaving out reading material which now puts us into a different category altogether because you are talking about children who cannot yet read so your target audience is now toddlers to let us say 5 year olds. Quite honestly I am not sure at what age something as you describe would affect a child as I am not sure when they would actually start to realize what they are viewing much less know what it means or depicts. The only reason I mention this is because you bring up the point of them not being able to read what is on the newstand which brinds up the age factor. The time frame between between them understanding what they see and when they are able to read is I believe a very difficult thing to establish and would probably vary from child to child. Please understand I am in no way condoning any of this. I am only trying to get across the point that I think that what is depicted for such a short time, once a year has very little if any affect on a child as does what they are exposed to every day year in and year out. To make my point easy to understand. If it were up to me I would not have explicit sexual items advertised on TV, I would not allow retail stores to have condoms on display in the aisles where children can easily see them (they never were yet people who wanted them obtained them). All of these items an be advertised in magazines that children and kids would not have an interest in. They have done it with cigatettes, why not this. They do not allow an advertiser to show people drinking beer. They cannot advertise many tobacco products of TV. I would not allow advertisers to advertise on prime time TV as to how this gel will enhance your sex life or tell us how wonderful this pill or that pill will keep you aroused for x number of hours. I think children being exposed to these things is more detrimental to them then the things you describe for Halloween which comes once a year. I see the Halloween thing as just another band wagon for people to jump on and avoid the real problems of what is going on around us.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Condoms started being sold openly when it became known that they had the ability to save lives and not just prevent them.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Impromptu tourniquet?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Scary Mary
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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