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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Has anyone read "80629: A Mengele Experiment"? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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stoneunhinged
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@Mark,

I've never seen a Spielberg movie that isn't entertaining, including Schindler's List. My objection is that one ought not deal with the Holocaust in a way that is entertaining. What you said is also true. But, you know, I'd buy Steve a beer and tell him how much I admire him, and I'd tell him that I cried when I saw the movie. He had good intentions.

@Jon,

you might remember a thread I started when a bomb exploded here in Göttingen two years ago, killing three people. Not many; just three.

I said at the time, and I still believe, that the particular sort of bomb that went off was a weapon of terror. It was dropped by the Americans. The good guys.

In WWII--as in Vietnam--the good guys got their hands dirty. In war, everyone gets their hands dirty.

That's the conclusion my own personal moral calculus porn leads me to. If your own conclusion is different, then you're wrong. Smile
Bill Hilly
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Some 27 years ago, my then boss let me read his grandfather's journal. He described in great detail his incarceration at Andersonville. The images I formed in my mind while reading it still haunt me. It's unbelievable what people are capable of doing to each other just because they are told to. That was the most chilling and disturbing thing I've ever read.
Vlad_77
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Quote:
On 2012-10-21 10:14, Bill Hilly wrote:
Some 27 years ago, my then boss let me read his grandfather's journal. He described in great detail his incarceration at Andersonville. The images I formed in my mind while reading it still haunt me. It's unbelievable what people are capable of doing to each other just because they are told to. That was the most chilling and disturbing thing I've ever read.


Elmira was not much better Bill Hilly.
tommy
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Rolf Mengele, I think is his name, the son, seems a good man to me and feel for him.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
stoneunhinged
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Comparing POW camps is like comparing the circles of hell.
Bill Hilly
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Quote:
On 2012-10-21 16:25, stoneunhinged wrote:
Comparing POW camps is like comparing the circles of hell.


Absolutely!

I have an 84-year-old friend who was in a German POW camp during WW2. He got captured only a few days after arriving and spent the rest of the war in the camp - 2 or 3 years, I think. I asked him to tell me some things about it for as long and often as he would like, and he did tell me some. He also told me his grandkids never asked. He said he never brought it up to them either. He's a very humble, easy-going, and jovial man, and said he didn't want to burden them with his stories. He thought they wouldn't be interested. I haven't worked with him, or seen him personally for 11 years but we talk on the phone a few times a year. And I always call him on Veterans' Day. Last year he sent me a card saying how much he appreciates the Veterans' Day calls.

Didn't want to highjack the thread. Y'all just got me to thinking.
tommy
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I am not sure about that. We had POW camps that held German POW that were not circles of hell. Have you seen the movie; The One That Got Away.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
tomsk192
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Chessman, you might be interested in reading "The Sunflower" by Simon Weisenthal.

He maintained, throughout his life, that the Holocaust should be viewed not as mass killing, but as millions of individual murders. It also deals with the issue of forgiveness. The whole book poses a question, which is answered by a range of thinkers at the end of the book. Do give it a look.

Tom
Woland
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Compare the death rates of American prisoners in German and Japanese camps, and you will see that not all POW camps were the same.
Chessmann
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Thanks, Tom. I'll look into that book.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
irossall
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On 2012-10-19 23:36, tommy wrote:
You can't condemn Mengele, you wasn't there!

:)


Yes I can condemn Joseph Mengele, and I do. Do you support the good doctor?

If Mengele acted out of fear for his own well being I might have some sympathy for him but we must remember that many of the "experiments" he conducted were of his own design (something I think a fearful "doctor" would not do).

Just my thoughts on the subject. I wasn't there either but I will err on the side of written history in this case.
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Woland
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In the case of the German medical profession and the implementation of the euthanasia program to eliminate "life unworthy of life" (Lebensunwertes Leben, it was not the National-Socialist regime that forced the doctors into doing something they abhorred, but the medical profession that used the National-Socialist government to enforce policies that doctors had long advocated.
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I looked into Mengele, because although now retired when I was doing research into the attractions of theme parks I met him. He has been called by some according to Fritz SPRINGMEIER the "father of Monarch Programming". And their "Master Programmer" This takes what he did and puts it within the framework of creating trauma to secure and Nazi marionette brainwashing from interference and disassociate the victim irretrievably once "broken". But this cannot be so.
Military grade brainwashing has many subtleties, it is the perfect trick in that it is invisible to all but those who may recognise some "leakage". And yet a trick on a person is and cannot be the perfect trick, for it offers no redemptive improvement to the muggles, merely their exploitation. We are told on the web when the Disney film "Fantasia" came out...an ideal vehicle for brainwashing allegedly, Mengele laughed ( I have heard his chuckle) when the Elephants blew bubbles endearingly. The supposition is that the human trait to do that when defeated by circumstances was built upon by the programmers..to indicate or train the mind as a sort of step or indicator in becoming acquired. (Think of Captain mainwaring in Dad's Army, he makes that noise with his lips/cheeks whenever he has to surmount something he does not like. THis shows, therefore to those in the know, that Mengele was a Johnny come lately and the Marionette precursor to Monarch Programming was very well advanced. Springmeir does a frame by frame, motif by motif analysis of "Fantasia" which was released in 1941, when Mengele was not even appointed to Auschwitz-Birkinau. Now, if the program was already that far advanced, Mengele must have been acquired that is programmed to cope with his task, meaning, potentially, he had no mens rea???? Some say he was or became an Ipsimus, which basically means without the frills his mind was wiped for the MarionetteProgramming uses, which via MK Utra became Monarch programming for civilian targets. If Mengele was an Ipsimus then that might explain the more esoteric mumbo jumbo used to confuse in the Monarch Programming and explain Mengele being linked to the so called "Great Work of the Secret Doctrine" My view all of that illuminati rubbish is just a front behind which Nations have hidden but CIA "Operation Often" begs the question, did virgin (-to the subject) agents of Nation states get overtaken and lost to one already well placed nation, or a Super-National organisation, just as Magicians have their brotherhoods! It sometimes help identify the tricksters though because some of them do believe this rubbish..it is used to pacify or terrorise them at a subliminal level, with trigger images in time honoured fashion being inserted into their daily diet of what they see in the media..or their dreams! Personally I refuse to fall for the illuminati line. Occams Razor! Another clue Mengele might have been so compromised (but still sentient to crave applause) was/is the name of the luxury 8 to 10 bed villa at Mougins, near Cannes in France. Handy to perform tricks on the minds of celebrities, Mengele's son Rolf has been letting it out since about 2008. Now I met Mengele in 2002 but did not realise it until a year or two ago. THe 1985 digging up of a body was not Mengele, they got the height, bone disease and teeth wrong. The DNA, the only thing that persuaded Posner it was Mengele, is just a 12 digit number. And if you google "the great work of the secret doctrine" with "Mengele" you will find an allegation based on dates known now that Mengele may have not have been the biological father to son Rolf. I am not sure about that, but the already accomplished trick to persuade us the remains matched the son would now be a laughable mistake. And since my raising the DNA must be a shill the remains in Brazil have been conveniently cremated. So all things considered, having looked Mengele in the eye, I think we can lay the culpability for Mengele's actions not to the man, but the machine that then , even then, was able to influence hime with a practice kept for the elite till then, and now made available to shadow warriors who probably were not even aware of why they thought as they did.The CIA studied what magicians could do as part of this abuse of power and denial of Human Rights. To defeat it, you need to think very hard about how far you already are along the journey Mengele followed. You can follow my occasional discoveries in this black art here; beachhutman@twitter https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:Alice_in_Wonderland and then most importantly here: http://bhmversusmengele.tumblr.com/ and if you find this far fetched look at http://www.whale.to/b/nsa4.html . That makes me seem less of a fantasist. Sadly someone who tried to push me further down this rabbit hole than I was prepared to go, out of fear or for favourable impressions of the tricks that this "technology" can achieve, Philip Davies, has lost a friend for his lofty ambitions. You do not need to know more that I do to know this is a Human Rights time bomb. I hope his children escape the cloak he has now drawn tighter around his
home. Tim Baber
irossall
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Quote:
On 2012-10-19 23:36, tommy wrote:
You can't condemn Mengele, you wasn't there!

:)


Yes Tommy, you are right. ONLY by being involved or witnessing an event, can one judge another. Hitler is still getting a bad rap by those who did not know him or were witness to his deeds. Charles Manson should be released from prison because he was persecuted and prosecuted by those who were not present when the murder's were commited (Manson never killed anyone anyway).
Iven Smile
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Jonathan Townsend
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In their shoes... Maybe

does willfull ignorance and use of proxies really make things better?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2012-10-22 04:13, irossall wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-10-19 23:36, tommy wrote:
You can't condemn Mengele, you wasn't there!

:)


Yes I can condemn Joseph Mengele, and I do. Do you support the good doctor?

If Mengele acted out of fear for his own well being I might have some sympathy for him but we must remember that many of the "experiments" he conducted were of his own design (something I think a fearful "doctor" would not do).

Just my thoughts on the subject. I wasn't there either but I will err on the side of written history in this case.
Iven Smile


I think he was trying to be funny.

I remember a film, 'The Boys From Brazil' which had aging Nazis murdering the fathers of young boys [who all amazingly look alike]. Gregory Peck played Jospeh Mengele. A magazine asked him if he was concerned about tying a real person to a fictional horror story. He responded; 'We kinda hope he'll sue us.'
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
tommy
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I think hypocrisy here knows no bounds.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
ed rhodes
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In what way?
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
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