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Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
I recently asked a cruise director of many years experience what thoughts, if any, he had of the many comedy magic acts I knew he must have seen over the years.
He named some that he remembered because they were really good... but his main comment was that in general they simply weren't funny enough. He then went on to say that he didn't think most of them did enough magic either. He characterised the acts he'd seen as spending too much phafing around on stage with people they'd got up to help and only doing about 4 tricks during a 45-60 min show. It's a sobering thought about what we do and how what's being done is seen by those who watch it.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
AllAboutMagic Veteran user California 333 Posts |
I think you have highlighted a major problem in our industry. We were spinning our wheels for years before we got smart and hired outside sources to evaluate our show. By having a director, and a writer look at your material you can grow leaps and bounds as a performer and an entertainer. When you look at all the great showmen/women out there, rarely do any of them do it alone. It is as though our precious ego's can't handle the thought of someone picking our acts apart, even though their intent is to improve upon what we have already built.
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Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
One of course has to be careful that we don't look at what we magicians, as a group, do solely in terms of what we magicians do as individuals. For many years I was quite disparaging of many non professional magicians until I realised that they had different goals from me. I do it for a living. For me there is an imperative to the quality of my performance. It has to be good and it has to work or I don't get my bills paid.
Others who have, for example, magic as a hobby come to it with a different set of objectives and different agendas. But like most things, sport, games, pastimes, etc, these activities are immeasurably more enjoyable and rewarding when done well. But the different motivations that various magicians have to get to the point of the magic being done well need to be recognised by those that would offer help or scorn. That way we are better able to help each other improve which will ultimately be beneficial for both magician and audience.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
Warning: I can't change the typos because I'm using my phone any there is one "really good" typo that wan not planned. Would someone tell me how to scroll down during an edit? Or, just have a laugh at my expense.
____________ I think the issue also relates to people buying others routines or flat-out ripping them. On theatre you are either an inner- outer or an outer- inner. My father was a song and dance man after vaudeville was dead. He thought his "clever" jokmanship was untouchable. That was the problem, he let the jokes run the show and (please print this out) no matter how many times you perform someone else's egg bag routine either A. People have seen a version of it before or B you have no personality and rely on the prop and situation to make the magic. I believe that you need to either grow-up in a show business family so you can learn from an early age or be so disenchanted with your own being that you assume a character "in totality" ... Or a little of both. Believe it or not, most people see magicians as a type of performing monkey ... Similar to Vince who sells those Shammy cloths... Just with tricks. You want to be funny? You need to connect with every audience on their level, making lite of the personalities helping or heckling and "living in the moment" One afternoon I was driving around Los Angeles with a well known magician ( I won't mention names but his initials are Whit Haydn ) and he said (and I agree 100 percent) he said "I believe all magicians have A.D.D and are Obsessive Compulsive. How else could you practice the same routine from 6 angles, over 300 times in the mirror.? But what does that have to do with comedy? By itself not much but as far as the mindset a lot. Most magicians have the desire and energy to rehearse a routine forever but they never invest in learning theatre. That's the difference in performing the same old routine in the same fashion like you saw someone else perform it, word for word, but that doesn't mean your timing, tempo and delivery is funny. The other problem is that most magicians hate criticism of any kind. So, actors will lay an acting coach , singers will pay a vocal coach but magicians get vert defensive if someone even suggests a change. That might be OK if your working at a party where the kids are 6 and everything you do is new and funny to them but just think about this: is the routine funny to other magicians who see it during a show at a meeting. Is that routine so funny your friends will buy dinner for their friends just to see you perform at a club. That's the test. Are the routines so unique that people are willing tonpay hard cash to see them? Some day I will actually write the way I feel and let it all hang put but just remember: it doesn't matter how great your friends say you are what matters is how many paying feats you consistently fill. Respectfully JL To recap: Who are you performing for? Are you rushing to but the latest popular trick that excites yourself (temporarily) or are you presenting material that numerous paying customers tell you they can watch time and time again... Even though YOU yourself may want to shelve it?
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
magicgeorge Inner circle Belfast 4299 Posts |
Great post, J!
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w_s_anderson Inner circle The United States 1226 Posts |
Well Done Jay!!! Typo's and all.....lol. I agree with you completely.
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Floyd Collins Inner circle Ohio 1633 Posts |
How profound and true J. I was thinking just the other day, man some of these tricks are getting old I cant believe people who have seen my show still ask to see these tricks over and over again.
Just last evening I did a show and after the show during the shaking of the hands as they leave the room, a guy said to me I have seen your show now for 3 years, you switched that egg trick up on me didn't you. I said, yeah have to keep on your toes. But the truth is I have performed it the same way for years. But for some reason last night it was different for him. My magician kid inside of me says, replace it with something newer, my professional side says, no not yet it is still solid gold.
No one said it would be easy, or did they?
Check out my all new book "Chicken Scratches" visit my lulu store for more information. http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/thecenterstage http://www.collinscomedymagic.com |
Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
Jay, that was a good read. Very nice post.
Just picking up on your last comment though.... Unless it's somehow associated with who you are (who would go and see Tom Jones and not want to hear him sing Delilah?) I think if you want to shelve something from your act you definitely should irrespective of whether it goes well and people want to see it. I believe, especially with comedy, you ought to be doing your show for yourself as much as for the audience. If you're not enjoying what you're doing, by for instance doing stuff you don't want to do, the chances are the audience will to some extent eventually pick up on that..., and even if they don't.. who wants to do something that that they don't enjoy doing? I got into show business specifically to do what I love doing... if I stopped loving it I might as well be doing a 9-5 job. Jay's main points about attitudes towards performing got me thinking more on this... and while I agree with what he said in his post it was a little less clear when I thought it all through. For instance I think it's understandable that non professional comedy (or non comedy come to that) magicians (hobbyist, amateurs, and part time performers not reliant on the income from it) wouldn't necessarily see the benefit of hiring outside help for their act. For many their interest and their performing is done for the enjoyment of merely having a go, being part of an art, and for having the spotlight shine on them momentarily and being the centre of a few laughs and a fun time with people they know or encounter. Getting better as a performer isn't necessarily part of the motivation for their interest. It thankfully usually happens that everyone tends to get better to some degree just from increased performing but as this often isn't part of the non professionals rationale, the 'getting better' is likely to only go so far. This is understandable when the interest in magic is more about finding out stuff, being able to do something that their mates or peers can't do and having something different to whip out and perform for the same people next week. As I said in my previous post, I used to be quite disparaging and dismissive of such an attitude towards our noble art of magic and comedy (more so the comedy because it's more painful when fails to hit the mark)... but now I'm way more blasé about it. One of the benefits of this is that I enjoy going to my local magic club a lot more than I used to. Quite simply I can accept that my goals in what I want with and get from, my magic aren't necessarily the same as others. Mine suit my needs as theirs suits theirs. I can take it for what it is and enjoy it (or not) on that level. By the way, I ought to add that actually all the members of my local magic club are in fact all excellent magicians. Moving on.... What I think is more interesting is that as well as non professionals, many professionally working jobbing magicians also don't generally seem to seek professional specialist advice on specific areas related to the theatre of a performance of magic. We must either think that we can do it all ourselves or that there's not enough return in seeking out such advice. So why do so few performers take the step of looking for and paying for, outside professional expertise? And are these performers mistaken in not doing so? Am I? Although I have at times, over the years, sought advice from colleagues, friends, comedians, actors and passers-by about various aspects of my act this has not been in any way as part of a strategy and has never (as far as I can recall) involved paying anyone in a professional capacity. It's not formed part of any plan or planned approach. Most recently I was umm-ing and ahh-ng about what material to select for the audience of the International Magic Convention in London. I found myself seeking opinions from several people including other comedy magicians, close uppers and non performing magicians too. But this was me being completely reactive to the situation I was heading towards. It wasn't any part of an organised proactive agenda. (By the way my choice of material.... was spot on..... and I was completely fabulous in the convention show... thanks for asking. ) So why haven't I sought out a director, a script writing editor, a costume stylist, a publicist, a lighting designer, a musical director, a magic advisor, a manager, a hair stylist etc etc... I'm a pro act who has only ever earned a living from comedy magic wouldn't it make sense to have invested in myself in this way and surrounded myself with all these experts? Was I a fool to myself for creating, picking, writing , editing, researching and collating all my my own outfits? music? lighting? scripting? publicity? hairdresser? routines? etc Well....I don't know. Maybe.... But the thing is, I have been, and still am, pretty happy with the end result that doing it all myself has produced. That doesn't mean to say I'm not shortchanging myself... maybe I'd have fared way better than the dizzy show biz heights of marvellousness that I feel I have already climbed to.... but maybe I happier this way. I like to think so... but I can't really know I guess. But it does make me think... what of the those other performers that have climbed to the top of the performing ladder? Did Paul Daniels seek this sort of external help before he made it big on TV? I don't know, but I seriously doubt it. Did Wayne Dobson? Again I don't know but I'd wager he didn't. I think the reason why many of us don't bother with this outside professional help is because although we can see the potential benefit it can bring we also have a built in belief that natural talent will win through in the end. That and, 'you can't polish a turd'. So if you have the talent you'll shine through without the help... and if you don't have the natural talent it doesn't matter how much help you get you're never going to shine as if you do. I don't know if this the sentiment is true but maybe this is the way we comedy (and non comedy) magicians subconsciously think about this Of course once you gain a public profile and you've 'done your act' on the TV the game changes. There becomes more of an imperative to then get help from every direction you can. You then have a reputation to protect and the audience has a specific expectation of the quality of what they are going to experience from you. And at that very point you find yourself thrown into a similar position of that of the non professional who has to turn to new and untested material for an audience that is familiar with what you've already done for them. And it's these performers, magicians, comedians and whoever, that can go out time and time again and do stuff that's new to them, often complete full evening shows, and make it work as if they've been doing it for years that I take my hat off to. I'm happy to say that my jealousy of their talents is completely swamped by my admiration of what they are able to do. That's a real talent.. and one that's not in any way diminished by the professional help that it might involve.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
w_s_anderson Inner circle The United States 1226 Posts |
I disagree with the outside help Sealegs. There are very few successful acts that haven't. If you haven't than my hat is off to you! I think that every show could benefit by having a director take a look at it. Someone who can look objectively at what your doing and make adjustments. I have had the wonderful opportunity to work with Joanie Spina, who is one of the foremost magic directors. She was able to tell me things that I had never even thought of, and she made minor tweeks that seemed to make a world of difference. It was her help that enabled us to get on television. I understand if you don't see the benefit of it, but be careful, once you use it you'll want to abuse it.....lol.
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Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
Scott (w_s_anderson) I don't think you do disagree with me about outside help.
But you're post has made me realise that in my long post above, although I alluded to it I didn't make it absolutely clear that I think it's excellent practice and hugely beneficial to get in outside professional expertise for ones act. If you get someone you trust, someone who is excellent at their craft and someone who knows what you are trying to achieve or better still can see the potential of what you can achieve that you haven't seen yet, then there's a good chance it's going to be the best investment you can make in your act. So I don't believe we a difference in opinion there. Where we do have a difference of opinion is in our understanding of whether most successful jobbing acts as a matter of course employ professional expertise in the form of directors or not. Now there's a good chance of getting tied up here in what is and isn't perceived to represent a 'successful performer'. As I described in my last post once a certain degree of celebrity has been achieved I believe the vast majority employ all sorts of outside professional expertise. This makes sense as these performers end up having to abandon the act that got them to the position of where they find themselves and embark on performing new material. The need for professional outside expertise is much more apparent in this situation especially because celebrity often brings a machinery with it that automatically introduces all sorts of outside help. But by comparison these performers represent a minute percentage of successful performers. So who are the other successful performers I'm referring to?... Well I believe a successful act is described pretty well by Ken Webber in his book Maximum Entertainment. He says success is having "a continual flow of repeat bookings". It's my contention that most jobbing acts that live comfortably or better from their performances don't as a matter of course, hire directors and other similar professionals. I have nothing to base this contention on other than from being in the business for about 27 years and during that time mixing and conversing with other entertainers. I concede that my contention, being based anecdotally might well completely wrong. But as I said in my above post I strongly suspect that the likes of Paul Daniels, Wayne Dobson and others like most successful jobbing acts probably didn't employ directors and other such outside expertise until after they became famous through their own efforts. That's not in any way undermining what professional outsiders can do for an act. It just points up and adds to the puzzlement as to why (if indeed my contention is true) successful professional acts don't invest in themselves in this way. Celebrity, and the fame that comes with it, for most comes after having spent much time honing an act through doing years of successful jobbing work.(although viral youtube clips look to maybe change this) When it happens though, the jump from jobbing act to celebrity status (even minor celebrity status) often happens quite suddenly. Take comedy performer Joe Pasquale. For years he was a successful act in the various UK entertainment circuits. After a good showing on a TV talent show he said he found himself in the weird position of doing exactly what he'd been doing a few weeks before but suddenly there were more zeros on the end of his pay check. His 'act as known' then soon became an act familiar to the public and it's at this point that outside assistance for putting together new material (to him at least) was brought in. I think it's obvious that most performers, including myself, seek advice on their act from time to time... This though is usually from colleagues, fellow performers, friends, etc... but seeking this sort of help on this sort of casual basis, which I'm sure most performers do to some degree or another, is a different from strategically planning and paying for outside expertise such as a director, script editor etc. If my contention is wrong, the puzzle of why we acts don't invest in ourselves in this way is solved and I'll be in a minority of performers who have shamefully underinvested in themselves over the years.... but if my contention is right the puzzle of our, still possibly shameful, underinvestment in ourselves seems to beggar some form of explanation when the benefits are probably universally accepted as likely to be positive and beneficial. My last post I looked to offer up a possible explanation as to why this might be the case.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
w_s_anderson Inner circle The United States 1226 Posts |
Oops......I guess I read your post too quickly. I do agree with you. Thank you for your response.
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