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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Woland, even the decision to have an unregulated market is a top-down decision. So have been decisions to partially or fully regulate some or all markets.
To pick obvious counter-examples, it is not clear that free markets in the following sectors would be in the public good: * military * heroin traffic * assassination * fresh air and water * toxic waste disposal * child health and welfare I am no foe of markets. But I resist the notion that there is something natural, inevitable or intrinsically beneficial to unregulated markets. The world just aint that simple. John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
"Venusians are very intuitive. They have developed this ability through centuries of anticipating the needs of others. They pride themselves in being considerate of the needs and feelings of others. A sign of great love is to offer help and assistance to another Venusian without being asked.
Because proving one's competence is not as important to a Venusian, offering help is not offensive, and needing help is not a sign of weakness. A man, however, may feel offended because when a woman offers advice he doesn't feel she trusts his ability to do it himself. A woman has no conception of this male sensitivity because for her it is another feather in her hat if someone offers to help her. It makes her feel loved and cherished. But offering help to a man can make him feel incompetent, weak, and even unloved. On Venus it is a sign of caring to give advice and suggestions. Venusians firmly believe that when something is working it can always work better. Their nature is to want to improve things. When they care about someone, they freely point out what can be improved and suggest how to do it. Offering advice and constructive criticism is an act of love." Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus p.19 "... if a man does not understand how a woman is different, he can make things worse when he is trying to help. Men need to remember that women talk about problems to get close and not necessarily to get solutions."p.21 "When a Venusian becomes upset or is stressed by her day, to find relief, she seeks out someone she trusts and talks in great detail about the problems of her day. When Venusians share feelings of being overwhelmed, they suddenly feel better. This is the Venusian way. On Venus sharing your problems with another actually is considered a sign of love and trust and not a burden. Venusians are not ashamed of having problems. Their egos are dependent not on looking "competent" but rather on being in loving relationships. They openly share feelings of being overwhelmed, confused, hopeless, and exhausted."p.31 "When women talk about problems, men usually resist. A man assumes she is talking with him about her problems because she is holding him responsible. The more problems, the more he feels blamed. He does not realize that she is talking to feel better. A man doesn't know that she will appreciate it if he just listens. Martians talk about problems for only two reasons: they are blaming someone or they are seeking advice. If a woman is really upset a man assumes she is blaming him. If she seems less upset, then he assumes she is asking for advice. If he assumes she is asking for advice, then he puts on his Mr. Fix-It hat to solve her problems. If he assumes she is blaming him, then he draws his sword to protect himself from attack. In both cases, he soon finds it difficult to listen..."p.37 "Another reason a man may resist listening is that he is looking for the bottom line. He cannot begin formulating his solution until he knows the outcome. The more details she gives the more he is frustrated while listening. His frustration is lessened if he can remember that she is greatly benefiting by talking about the details....Something a woman can do to make it a little easier for a man is to let him know in advance the outcome of the story and then go back and give the details. Avoid keeping him in suspense...(p.39) The Martians realized that even when they felt they were being attacked, blamed, or criticized by the Venusians it was only temporary; soon the Venusians would suddenly feel better and be very appreciative and accepting. By learning to listen, the Martians discovered how much the Venusians really thrived on talking about problems. Each Martian found peace of mind when he finally understood that a Venusian's need to talk about her problems was not because he was failing her in some way. In addition he learned that once a Venusian feels heard she stops dwelling on her problems and becomes very positive. With this awareness, a Martian was able to listen without feeling responsible for solving all her problems. Many men and even women are very judgemental of the need to talk about problems because they have never experienced how healing it can be."p.40 |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
I just don't understand what an ancient Jewish term (DECISORS) has to do with the Hurricane hitting that hit the Jersey shore.
Woland Are you trying to dazzle us with your vocabulary?
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
Best wishes, Slide.
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Pecan_Creek Veteran user The Nation of TEXAS! 323 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-05 13:40, Al Angello wrote: Ya Think? |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-05 09:36, Dannydoyle wrote: You see, Danny, I have above average intelligence in case you haven't noticed. Sorry, but I gotta ! |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Hi Al, my comment had nothing to do with the weather, but with the ensuing discussion about money. If you don't like the word decisor, substitute decider or decision-maker.
Hi Magnus, I'm not talking about unregulating various parts of the economy, I'm concerned with the organization of the economy as a whole. Allowing people to make their own economic decisions, and to profit or to lose on the basis of those decisions, is the engine that drives prosperity. |
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Pecan_Creek Veteran user The Nation of TEXAS! 323 Posts |
You missed the point . "Decisor" is not a word.
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-05 14:43, Pecan_Creek wrote: It is now.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-05 14:11, magicalaurie wrote: NoI have not noticed. You seem to hide it well. Being excentric, does not make one intelligent.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Here's an interesting economic comment I saw on the "democratic underground" website:
Quote:
Let’s say that you have the ability to print your currency using your computer printer, and every merchant accepted your printouts as a valid exchange for goods and services. You need to pick up your dry cleaning? You printout a $20 bill and your cleaners hand over your garments without question. Same would be true for your mortgage, groceries, car note, etc. Your creditors even accept your printouts as payment on your debts. Now do you understand? |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-05 15:32, Woland wrote: The sarcasm switch is on, right?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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EsnRedshirt Special user Newark, CA 895 Posts |
Yeah, Woland, but there were about 150 additional comments shouting him down.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.
* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
From what I understand, shouting someone down is not unusual at that location - a property it shares, I admit, with many fora.
The point is, however, as even a communist might know from Der gute mensch von Setzuan, is that the economic institutions that we have in the West were not invented, but evolved over centuries of practice. After countless millenia of grinding poverty, only about 500 years ago or so, in towns and cities in northern Europe there beganb to develop free economies based on free trade and the freedom to pursue one's own career according to his own lights, and to retain the for himself what he had himself earned and created. From that developed joint-stock, limited-liability corporations, and the whole modern world of industry and commerce. For the first time in history, there were significant numbers of people who were not poor. Of course the economies that developed were not, and are not, without problems. There is no life without problems. And it is tempting to dream up a comprehensive system that would eliminate all of the problems that someone can perceive. It has been tried many times. In practice, those utopian systems, without the evils of money and the free market, turn out to be worse than the ways of life they were intended to ameliorate. Much worse. The status quo, imperfect as it is, deserves to be defended with our very lives, for the alternative has been, in every socialist utopia instituted on this earth, a society in which "there is no place for industry, because the fruit thereof is uncertain, and consequently, not culture of the earth, no navigation, nor the use of commodities that may be imported by sea, no commodious building, no instruments of moving and removing such things as require much force, no knowledge of the face of the earth, no account of time, no arts, no letters, no society, and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Free economies are much older than Europe. There was free trade in Obsidian as more than 15,000 years ago. There is strong evidence of unregulated trade in the ancient near east and mesoamerica going back several thousand years.
We do see some evidence of government regulation and market interference in grain trade, luxury goods and military equipment 2000-3000 years ago, but most other commodities appear to have been freely traded. The slave trade was largely unregulated for most of human history. I have no idea what this all adds up to, though.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
I don't hide it, Danny- you misunderstand it.
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Pecan Creek
Woland has his own agenda, and I thank you for getting my point, because sometimes I feel like I'm talking to myself.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
I'm listening, Al.
It's been snowing here today, FWIW. |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Thanks Laurie
My feelings get hurt when smug people ignore me.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-05 16:35, magicalaurie wrote: Nope I understood the delusion perfectly.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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