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stilson New user 78 Posts |
I'm going to be in New York for an entire week. Where is the best place to go to see the shell game and three card monte being performed on the street?
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Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts |
With the legalization of the lottery and off-track betting on horses, three-card monte and the three-shell game have virtually disappeared from the street. I haven't seen a game played since the early 1990s. The best places used to be mid-town.
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DougTait Elite user Sebring, FL 492 Posts |
It'a been 6 years, but I ran across a game in the Battery Park area near the Statue of Lberty ferry. He wasn't doing much business and looked nervous as a Monte player at 1 Police Plaza.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men [and women] to do nothing."
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Darwin Ortiz V.I.P. 486 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-26 14:41, Ray Haining wrote: Both the New York Lottery and New York OTB were legal before the heyday of three-card monte in New York in the 1970s. To think there is any connection between the success of the former and the disappearance of the latter is to completely misunderstand the psychology of monte. When someone bets on a horse, they realize they are gambling. When someone buys a lottery ticket, they realize they are gambling on an extreme long shot. When someone bets on a card at three-card monte, they believe that they are betting on a sure thing. Very few people will bet on monte unless they are certain that they know where the winning card is. Consequently, monte is not in competition with other forms of gambling. |
Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts |
Very interesting. I see the difference now. Shows that a person (me) can think they know what they're talking about, but don't. I was really only guessing.
What, then, would explain the decline of this game being played on the streets of New York, because I use to see it quite often at one time? |
Mr Salk Special user Tied to 568 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-01-05 00:26, Ray Haining wrote: The answer was given; it's not a "game" at all. The only time I saw it in action was in Barcelona in the 90's. It took a full crew to operate without apprehension.
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Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts |
Whether it is a game or not does not explain why it is no longer as popular as it once was.
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
Ray, because more and more people now realize that they're short-cons, and not games at all - they're not as popular.
So it actually does explain clearly "why" they're not spread in as many places as they once were, and why they're subsequently not as popular today as they once were. There was a time when the majority of folks walking down the average big-city street thought they were a real games, games that they might have a chance of winning some money on - they thought there was an element of chance involved. That there's no element of chance involved at all is much more ingrained in the general publics knowledge of such things today. Today, it's widely understood by the general public that through the multiple layers of the typical short-con, there is no other ending possible but that which involves you losing all your money. In other words, that they're actually a passive robbery of sorts is now clearly known to more laymen than it once was. Adding to that, the 1990's clean-up of locations like Times Square served to put a nail in the coffin of wide open spreads in very public places. In the past few years, it seems there are at least 100+ cops permanently in and around Times Square and vicinity day and night.......It certainly didn't used to be like that! Of course there are still millions of folks who don't have a clue what a "bent corner" or "hype" or "steal and load" or "cap and ball" or "crew" actually are, so the games certainly do survive, even if they don't flourish out in the open streets as they once (gloriously!) did. |
Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts |
Good points. I would say that the clean-up of Times Square, which I had forgotten about, could probably be the greatest contributing factor to the decline of this con being seen on the streets of New York. If the public is more aware of the criminal nature of three-card monte, then I can see how that would contribute to it's decline, but I have no way of gauging that knowledge. Is there a study you are referring to?
I would just point out that people know the fantastic odds in the lottery, yet still throw money at it. And do you know, or have known, personally, or have you ever known of, a winner at horce racing? Yet there's a lot of money spent there. I think that even if people believe the system is rigged, they still think they can beat it. And so knowledge of three-card monte being fixed is not an explanation for why it is not played as much as it once was. Unless, like I said, people are aware of the criminal element--that it's a team, not just the card thrower, that there is no way you are going to leave there with their money. They'll take it by force, sometimes at the point of a gun, and anything else you have on you, if they have to. |
silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-01-14 00:43, Ray Haining wrote: Nothing specific Ray, but to note that "back in the day", if you wanted information on the Three Shell Game, or the Monte (or any short-con for that matter) you had perhaps half a dozen serious reference texts on the topic. For example, John Scarne et al had some books on the con (as opposed to use by magicians), and there were a few others. Of course whether you had access to these books in your local bookstore or library (as this was all pre-internet, pre-amazon, pre-ebay, etc) would be hit or miss. Today however, entering "3 Card Monte" into Google brings up 7 million hits. Similarly, entering "Shell Game" into Google brings up 40 million hits. Some of those Google hits actually relate to using the short-con terminology as a metaphor for other kinds of contemporary hustles (Wall street junk bonds, Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae, etc), which again tends to indicate that the short-cons are well enough known today that a newspaper editor could write something like "he ran a shell game on his customers", and the average reader would understand very clearly that it was a reference to criminal activity taking place. I think it may be safe to posit that the internet in general, and the access to information via your TV and computer has broadened such that people today are far more informed on almost every topic than they were even 10 or 20 years ago. Public knowledge as it relates to short-cons like the Monte and the Top and Ball can (IMO) be safely presumed to extend far beyond the knowledge of the average "Joe on the Street" back when you couldn't walk a block in the Times Square area without coming across a crew and spread - and a most willing public. |
mota Inner circle 1658 Posts |
Why fewer games...
1 Guliani cleaned up Times Square. 2 People carry far less cash these days...it is all plastic. 3 Public education has made some impact (but this is still a game of emotion and impulse). The only place I know to consistently find tops is hip-hop events. You will have to decide if you would fit into that culture. If you go please realize that these guys are not doing a magic trick. They carry knives and guns and are deadly serious about robbing you with tops (or cards). **** with them and they will hurt you. You don't see as much cards as tops anymore. To quote the late Gamblin' Sam, "The red will get the bread, but the ball will get it all". |
Darwin Ortiz V.I.P. 486 Posts |
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On 2013-01-14 00:43, Ray Haining wrote: I agree. |
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