|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5 [Next] | ||||||||||
Kondini Inner circle 3609 Posts |
Bravo.
|
|||||||||
dave_matkin Inner circle 4522 Posts |
I know several people who have done shows all overthe world and without advertising a challenge handcuff escape have ended up doing one - with some really obscure handcuffs. Often their reward for escaping them has been to have the cuffs added to their collection. Not saying it happens every week - but it does happen and there are ways or using any handcuff in an escape and even with not having the right item for that pair of cuffs to be opened. But that's not for an open forum at all. Not an original idea - not mine to give away but some of you will know it.
|
|||||||||
Kondini Inner circle 3609 Posts |
This is where Devals Littler Papers reign supreme, the only definitive information ever to have been made available to ea's. The remarks on here show without a doubt the lack of knowledge regards challenge escapes as a form of escapology entertainment. Ken
|
|||||||||
Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
Hear Hear!
As Prynce Wheeler wrote: "You can let yourself in for a lot of unpleasant trouble if you are not careful." You don't learn the ropes (or cuffs) overnight.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
|||||||||
Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-04 05:19, Roslyn wrote: Yep. I learned that in the first Houdini biography I ever read--when I was 13 (that was in 1970).
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
|||||||||
magicbymccauley Special user 830 Posts |
I did not know that people had an issue with discussing EA methods on the more secret forum. If that's how you all feel I won't do it again. It seems that EA's are even more secretive than magicians. That's fine, I don't mind being more secretive. If there's a better place to discuss that, then let me know.
"McCaully, That is an old method. Nothing new has been added at all." I'd have to discuss in depth the routines I use with it and some of the wrinkles contained within the presentation. I tried to do that in my explanation but it didn't come across well. I'll have to post a video somehow with the routine as well as the presentation. The routine I use is certainly new but I'm not sure if the method is or not (or should I say "methods", as there's more than one method to it). I'd like to post a video of it, but how can I do that just for the members of the escape forum without others seeing it? After that, feel free to say "Hey, there's nothing new here, idiot." And no, I have never heard of Houdini.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven |
|||||||||
magicbymccauley Special user 830 Posts |
The point though Ros, was that locks are a better thing to ask people to bring than handcuffs. This may just be a US thing but Handcuffs have a stigma attached to them in the US and people are unwilling to admit to having them, it makes the situation uncomfortable.
So my point wasn't that "Hey, no one has ever thought of bringing locks to an escape show", the point was that asking people to bring locks rather than handcuffs serves the same purpose but is more desirable from a presentation of view. P.S. Who is this Houdini fellow? I've heard of a guy named Hardeen?
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven |
|||||||||
magicbymccauley Special user 830 Posts |
>I was about to say, have them bring their own locks to fasten your chain devices, pillories, boxes and/or etc.
>A standard practice. You know come to think of it, I have no idea what "standard practice" is for an escape artist. There simply aren't many where I live. The only Escape artist we have in the DC/Baltimore area is Spencer Horseman, and he only has one escape in his show (suspended straight jacket). Spencer has a few more escapes but only regularly does that one (and I've seen his show three times). Copperfield only has one escape in his act the last time I saw him come through the DC area (Escape from underneath a steel plate with was more like a magic trick). I haven't ever seen an escape artist in Vegas either. All the guys there might do one escape, but I wouldn't call them Escape Artists. Everyone around here does a straight jacket escape, it's all the rage but the methods they use are pretty elementary (They bought one from Magic Makers). Consequently I'm not doing one. The Cheeky Monkeys who are from around here do all the carnival stunts (blockhead, etc) but I've never seen an escape show or anyone I would consider an Escape Artist or an Escape Act. Never. I've seen one escape in a magic act, but that's it. McBride does Assistant's Revenge (more of an illusion really) and Abbi Spinner McBride does a great straight jacket routine. If anyone knows of an escape artist show I could go see, that would be great.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven |
|||||||||
magicbymccauley Special user 830 Posts |
Here are the escapes I've seen live: Sub trunk. Comedy handcuff. Straight Jacket. Siberian chain cuffs. Thumb tie. That's it.
I think Thumb tie is lame. But that's just me.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven |
|||||||||
Ian McColl Inner circle 1493 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-04 19:43, magicbymccauley wrote: McCauley, If you know nothing of escapes, why not ask questions instead of making statements. Read as much as you can and then come here to clarify, PM people instead of letting the whole world know how little you know. Once you know what escapes are, you shouldn't, and I hope you don't intertwine an illusion into an escape and call it such. Illusion is illusion and escape is escape.
handcuff keys https://www.facebook.com/groups/274871910110997/
old business https://www.facebook.com/Stockade-locksmiths-276492435716704/ |
|||||||||
Sparrowhwk Regular user 177 Posts |
The more we learn, the more we realize how little we know.
This applies to all of us who are students of the art. It is incumbent upon us newbies to approach this with due respect - just as one would a crocodile. A trained handler can hold a croc's mouth closed, but it's not advisable that someone who has just watched the croc show a few times give it a try. When the croc bites - it's usually really bad. McCauly - there are lessons to be learned that go far beyond the simple mechanics of liberating from a restraint. There are in fact be other escape artists in your area, and there may be a good reason they have avoided making contact. May I suggest this isn't a sprint, and we need to pace ourselves to allow the time needed to learn the vital lessons along the way. And LISTEN to those that know!!! |
|||||||||
magicbymccauley Special user 830 Posts |
>McCauley, If you know nothing of escapes, why not ask questions instead of making statements.
I didn't say that I know nothing. Just that I am a beginner. >Read as much as you can and then come here to clarify, PM people instead of letting the whole world know how little you know. I have don't have any ego to speak of. Thus I'm not concerned with looking foolish. Perhaps it would matter if I cared about appearances or reputation, but I don't. I don't like talking about things on PM. I like throwing an idea out and having people comment. You seem very concerned with reputation. I am not. Perhaps the difference is cultural, but I am an approachable, self effacing and open person. >Once you know what escapes are, you shouldn't, and I hope you don't intertwine an illusion into an escape and call it such. Illusion is illusion and >escape is escape. I have noticed that this is a problem, and I'm not sure what I'm going to be able to do about it. Illusions can muddle an escape, no argument there. You want the audience to think of an escape as a physical and skillful challenge, rather than a cheap trick. However, as I said, few people have an all escape show, and most people do a magic show with a single escape in it, which weakens the effect. You don't want the audience to think the escape is accomplished by some simplistic trick, you want it to be seen as real as you can. Unfortunately having an all escape show just isn't really practical, as audiences need variety. But then if I don't do magic in the show I'm left doing more sideshow stuff, which everyone is already doing (blockhead, razors from mouth, etc.) My solution is that I'm going to do illusions that have more of an EDGE to them and seem more realistic (walking thru barbed wire, getting nearly stabbed by dodging swords in a box, and some physical type stunts which are of my own making. I may be forced to include one illusion just because it adds financial value to the show and agents want a big illusion in the show. Obviously that conflict between Realism vs. Illusion concerns me greatly. A magic trick would be good variety, but again, you have to worry that it will weaken the overall appearance of physical skill that is associated with escapes.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven |
|||||||||
magicbymccauley Special user 830 Posts |
>McCauly - there are lessons to be learned that go far beyond the simple mechanics of liberating from a restraint.
>There are in fact be other escape artists in your area, and there may be a good reason they have avoided making contact. Quick question Sparrowhawk. Why are so many magicians and escape artists passive aggressive snarky commentators? I'm not saying you are. I'm just asking. In general. For no specific reason.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven |
|||||||||
Ian McColl Inner circle 1493 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-05 00:02, magicbymccauley wrote: I am talking personal self esteem. Got nothing to do with ego. Quote:
Can see that Quote:
On 2012-11-05 00:02, magicbymccauley wrote: Good, your illusions should be just what audiences are looking for and very entertaining. You can flesh out idea over at the illusion sections and many people will surely help you.
handcuff keys https://www.facebook.com/groups/274871910110997/
old business https://www.facebook.com/Stockade-locksmiths-276492435716704/ |
|||||||||
Kondini Inner circle 3609 Posts |
Again we see the pretenders,,,they can do it all, talk with authority but when you drill down to it its BS and they know nout. No, on here BS does not baffle brains.
For my friends in the MD area,,,yes as you know there are three es`s who work the circuits in the US and Europe, my good friend Wally Riehl (His real and not pro name) Who lives in Savernna Park worked with me on the Kunte Kinte Celebrations in Annapolis a few years back and did the Ren Fair run over here with 4 Seasons Events (A UK based USA promotion) There is plenty of work in the US for those capable !!!! Regards the West Coast area,,Paddy has worked this for several seasons and booked again for next year,,,,his act is pure escapology and in demand over the pond as there are no pure pro ea`s available (I do know of one who pretends to be an escapologist,,,BS again,,,but he spends most of his "Pro" life doing walkaround in Pizza Huts). I point the above out for one reason only,,,its the truth and not pretence. Ken. |
|||||||||
Roslyn Inner circle UK 3405 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-04 19:30, magicbymccauley wrote: I understood exactly what you were saying regarding the padlocks. And yes, they are often the better option to ask for because more people have them. The sexual innuendo often associated with cuffs is not just US based. Although, I'd say that the innuendo associated with cuffs can also be transposed to any restraint. I use this to my advantage. Even in family shows you can get away with joking about it, as long as you're not blatant. However, my point was that this was not new thinking. I probably should've explained myself better, but neither the cuffs idea nor the borrowing of locks are new concepts in escapology. That doesn't mean they're bad ideas. Just old. And not original to you. Should they be discussed? Maybe. But not in this context. And not presented as though you've had this awesome idea. Every advert for a mail bag escape states that locks can be borrowed. As for EAs being more secretive, I completely disagree. The EAs I've met and now consider friends have been some of the most open people I know who are willing to share their ideas and concepts. I would put them in the same category as circus folk when it comes to passing on knowledge. Very willing to share, often for free, but only with the right people in the right setting. An online forum isn't an appropriate venue for such conversations. Magicians talk of keeping secrets, yet there are many who have made a business out of selling those secrets. In magic, I've noticed, money talks. This tends to not be the case in circus. At least not in my experience.
The Magic Cafe account of The Conwy Jester, Erwyd le Fol formerly known as Roslyn Walker.
My home online Join me on Facebook Follow me on twitter |
|||||||||
dave_matkin Inner circle 4522 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-05 00:02, magicbymccauley wrote: My thoughts here are:- if most people are doing it why do you want to do it the same way? Why put an escape in if the stuff you do before it weakens it? That surely works for all parts of any show? Either take the escape out ..... Or do all escapes. It's not unheard of, it's not impossible. If you want your escape to be seen to be real ..... Make it real and don't surround it with magic. |
|||||||||
magicbymccauley Special user 830 Posts |
Ian Said:
>"Good, your illusions should be just what audiences are looking for and very entertaining. You can flesh out idea over at the illusion sections and >many people will surely help you." OH MY GOD! IAN ACTUALLY AGREED WITH ME ABOUT SOMETHING! PEOPLE! MARK THIS ON YOU CALENDAR! HE AGREED WITH ME!!!! Ken Said: >Again we see the pretenders,,,they can do it all, talk with authority but when you drill down to it its BS and they know nout. No, on here BS does not >baffle brains. Ken, there's a difference between a pretender and a beginner. I'm going to do a largely escapology show which is a departure from my mainly family magic show. Is there anything wrong with that? It's a big risk and a large undertaking and of course there are many things to consider and worry about. But should I not do it? Should I just prostrate myself before everyone and lick the gravestone of Houdini until I feel worthy? No. I'm going to go out and do it. I'm not talking with authority, all I said was that I've never seen an escapologist appear around here, and I didn't see any in vegas the couple of times I was there to see shows. I think EA's are very rare, and I've never seen one live. Not to say that there couldn't be anyone in my area who is one, just that I've never seen one live.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven |
|||||||||
magicbymccauley Special user 830 Posts |
Ros said:
>That doesn't mean they're bad ideas. Just old. And not original to you. Should they be discussed? Maybe. But not in this context. And not presented >as though you've had this awesome idea. Ros. I was well aware the people have had borrowed locks in the past. Yes, I may have heard of Houdini. The routine (script and presentation) I made for these specific cuffs is new. The method is from Abbott's Escapes as I mentioned. There's just one wrinkle from a presentational methodology standpoint that I think MIGHT be new. But how am I going to show that to you, when no one wants me posting videos in ANY FORUM about it? >As for EAs being more secretive, I completely disagree. Then why are most magicians fine with me posting the methods in the secret forums, but you don't want me to? >Very willing to share, often for free, but only with the right people in the right setting. An online forum isn't an appropriate venue for such >conversations. Well, online forums is all I have, so I'm going to go with that. It would be great if I could go to an escapology convention. No one at Ring 50 has (My Local IBM/SAM) the knowledge. I hope to get out to see Harley at some point, but he teaches during the summer which is my busiest time, so it may be difficult.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven |
|||||||||
magicbymccauley Special user 830 Posts |
>if most people are doing it why do you want to do it the same way?
No, of course not. I don't. I don't want my escapes to be seen as magic tricks, and I think having one escape in a magic show is a poor idea. >Why put an escape in if the stuff you do before it weakens it? A great idea. If I do an illusion, do it later. Very good idea. Thanks for that. >That surely works for all parts of any show? Either take the escape out ..... Or do all escapes. It's not unheard of, it's not impossible. >If you want your escape to be seen to be real ..... Make it real and don't surround it with magic. Couldn't agree more Dave.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » All tied up! » » Life after Canon's (1 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |