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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Spectator False Shuffle (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MagicLeeMagic
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Hello! My name is Lee. I am new here so excuse me if this is not how you are supposed to post. I have had this trick on my mind with a huge stack of 8.5x11 paper shuffled by a spectator. The climax is basically where the papers say something in order.
The reason I put this in the card category is because I thought it would be great to have a spectator shuffle a pack but they would still be in order (like in NDO, Si Stebbins, etc.). I know the way to get the spectator to shuffle a few cards is doing the thing where either dealing 1 or 2 cards depending what they say but all you do is reverse the order. But I feel there might be some other ways to get the spectator to "false shuffle." If you guys have any ideas please tell me. I am excited to get to know this forum!
Thank you so much,
MagicLeeMagic
Dennis Loomis
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Welcome to the Café. I am not sure how you could get a spectator to false shuffle a deck for you, although it is an intriguing possibility. However, there is a procedure for nullifying a spectators shuffle by doing a shuffle of your own afterwards. It's explained in Eric Mead's Book "A Tangled Web."

Dennis Loomis
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ddyment
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One such method is described (as part of the effect, "The Real Thing") in my second book, Stimulacra.

In fact, the effect is the one suggested: audience members randomly shuffle pieces of paper with letters on them, and the results (without the entertainer needing to touch the papers) is that they end up in a particular order to spell something out.
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Scott Cram
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Although you might not think of it as such, I'd think the mixing sequence in Shuffle-Bored qualifies.
volto
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Some resources:
Persi Diaconis has material in this area in his most recent book. Also, Leo Boudreau has effects that can "withstand" certain types of shuffle.
Martyn Smith has an effect called "Up The Ante" that's in this area and is pretty spectacular.
The Shuffle-bored sequence is excellent, as is the shuffling sequence in "The Shuffling Lesson" by Chad Long. Both effects involve spectator shuffles and the magician never needs to touch the deck (or, the spectator's part of the deck).
There's an excellent Nick Trost "Test Conditions" location that involves the spectator shuffling.

Hope that all helps? Smile
wafflesthemagician
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If you count it out mathematically, 8 perfect riffle shuffles gets you back to where you started. So, if you do 7 perfect riffle shuffles, and guided the spectator to do a perfect riffle shuffle...
Dennis Loomis
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To wafflesthemagician,

I assume you must be joking. If you could guide a spectator to do perfect Faros... well perhaps you could run against God in the next election for Supreme Being.

But then I've learned that you should not assume that anything is impossible. I would have thought that it would be impossible to do a perfect Faro interlace of the cards by riffle shuffling the cards down onto the table. But then I found out that the late Tommy Cooper could do that!

I don't really consider that the shuffle used in the Shufflebored routine is a false shuffle. We usually reserve the term "False shuffle" to mean retaining the ORDER of the cards. In Shufflebored what is preserved is the number of Red and Black cards in a particular talon. This, of course, does not change no matter what shuffles or cuts are done to the cards.

Dennis Loomis
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Atom3339
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I agree with Dennis. A true False Shuffle implies the deck retains the exact order. On the other hand there are many effects where you don't care how a spectator shuffles or how many times. Such as Miraskill, that is not a "true" shuffle in that you know the outcome in advance; usually based on a mathematical principle. Not on order. This can appear to be a False Shuffle to laymen and magician alike. Very deceiving.
TH

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baobow
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Lee,

how many 'paper' cards are you looking to hand to the spectator to shuffle? If you are only looking to give them say 10 cards for example then you might be able to do a mathematical sequence to give them the impression that they have shuffled fairly. Woody Aragon's trick where after a mixing sequence, he can get a match by keeping track of the two cards he needs and shuffling the non required cards. Makes it look very hap - hazard
ddyment
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The method used in my "The Real Thing" (mentioned above) is a true false shuffle: the complete order of the stack is preserved (which is, of course, necessary for the message to come out correctly). In my experience with this effect, audience members are completely convinced that they have thoroughly mixed the order.
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volto
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"False shuffle" - the phrase is used in its looser sense a lot.
E.g.
Devant and Maskelyne, "Our Magic": "In a false shuffle, on the other hand, when certain stocked cards are prevented from being mixed with the others..."
Arthur Buckley, "Card Control": Buckley's "out of this world" false shuffle and cut - "The top cards remain undisturbed. Only those of the bottom half are disturbed."
and especially, Jean Hugard, "Expert Card Technique" - all of chapter six, "False Shuffles", including "False Shuffle retaining top stock".

I think a modified ShuffleBored approach would work, as long as the volunteer can do a reasonably neat riffle.
baobow
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--huge stack of 8.5x11 paper--

in reality, they are not gonna mix it much with this size.
wafflesthemagician
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Dennis, I could imagine a situation like this: You've got your stack, done the 7 riffle shuffles, and pass it off to a spectator, cut it perfectly in half, and ask them to shuffle. Then, you "change your mind". You decide to "REALLY make it perfectly mixed", you ask them to riffle shuffle them one by one. Realize this will take a few minutes, so while they're doing that, go on and patter. When the spectator finishes the one shuffle, take the deck back. Since it took so long, people will forget that it was only one perfect riffle shuffle, and will assume that the deck is REALLY mixed up, because the person shuffling was doing it for so long. Bam. You've just guided a spectator to do a perfect riffle shuffle, while the audience thinks the shuffler was just shuffling for a few minutes.
Dennis Loomis
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Question for waffles. I read what you wrote and have no idea what the spectator is doing that is a one-for-one shuffle. I know that in many effects a spectator is asked to deal the deck into two piles, dealing one card at a time. Yes, this achieves what a perfect faro does but it certainly is not a shuffle.

I always thought that when you do a perfect faro that the idea is to conceal the absolutely perfect interlace and to just create the appearance that you have done a "random" butt shuffle. In fact, I think that the key thing in any shuffle is to randomize the order of the cards. Painstakingly interlacing the complete deck does not produce a random result. That's why magicians use the perfect faro. While the cards are in a new order, it's an absolutely predictable new order which allows us to create magical effects.

Dennis Loomis
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Nick Pudar
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This thread reminds me of a fun story that really did happen a few years ago. I do not recall if I ever shared it here at the Café.

Lennart Green was scheduled to perform/speak at the TED Conference in Monterey, CA. I emailed him before the conference, and we agreed to meet at the opening reception, which was held at the Monterey Aquarium. I found him sitting on a bench in a secluded corner, sipping a glass of wine. We had a chance to talk and share some card magic for about 20 minutes, and the conversation included various false shuffle techniques. A group of people saw something happening with cards, so they joined us, and within a few minutes, Lennart was performing some amazing stuff. Of course, I slipped away into the periphery of the crowd to keep all the attention on Lennart. He was doing his multiple shuffles, punctuated by instantaneous productions of whatever card any spectator called for. He must have tired of that, becasue he handed the deck to a woman and asked her to thoroughly shuffle the deck -- presumably moving into a different card effect. She hesitated, and said that she was not comfortable with cards, and couldn't shuffle. So Lennart asked her to give the deck to someone else to shuffle them. She looked around, and handed ME the deck! Lennart asked me to really thoroughly shuffle the deck -- so I did several convincing false shuffles, hoping that Lennart knew I was doing false shuffles. He took the deck from me, and asked someone else to name any card. It must have been in a conveniently accessible position in the deck, because that card instantaneously flew from the deck into his outstretched fingers. The audience howled at this absolute miracle. That is probably the closest thing to a spectator false shuffling the deck for you!

Later on, Lennart and I shared a gleeful laugh over the incident.

Nick
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mimo67
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What a wonderfull story you shared here Nick, thanks very much ! So inspiring, so magical !
How to do a real miracle 101 ;-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~MiMo~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Atom3339
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I've had too many bad encounters to just hand a deck over for a spectator to shuffle. UNLESS I really don't care at that point. I've attempted effects desiring a riffle shuffle and the spectator does an overhand shuffle. I've had fellow magicians try to show me up by purposely combining flourishy shuffles to mess me up. Spectators have dropped cards.

Yes, I take the blame for not having better audience management. But I think it's insightful not to RELY on what the spectator can or will do. I've found spectators that don't know what you mean by "Cut the cards!"

So I've relegated myself to show a Cut first for example and in most other cases NOT letting the spectator handle the cards. The few exceptions? Signing a card. Turning over a card. Taking a card to show the audience. Notice: A card. Uno.

Have modified my routines for audience participation with: Think of a card. Name a card. Tell me when to STOP.

Can still interact and make the Magic happen, but now much more hands off.

p.s. Nice, refreshing, to use the word "relegated." Ahhhh.....
TH

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Dennis Loomis
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I'm afraid that playing cards as a pastime is just not as popular as it once was. Kids play video games, not cards or board games anymore. The neighborhood poker games are harder and harder to find. The only reason that a lot of folks even know the names in a deck of cards is that once in a while they may watch some poker on television. (Mostly Texas Hold-em.)

The world moves on. Many of you remember the good ole days when you could borrow a 50 Cent piece to do a coin trick with. And men wore hats that we could borrow to use in a trick.

We just have to adapt. Remember, if no one in your audience can shuffle a deck, you can always have someone spread them around on the table to mix them up.

Dennis Loomis
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<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
nathanmorris
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Lennart greens chain shuffle is pretty darn good if you ask me
Frank Yuen
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You could definitely walk the spectator through a many kinds of false cuts and may even be able to walk them through a Charlier shuffle. Me, I'd use a stripper deck and let them do one riffle shuffle or push two spreads together ala Tamariz. Take back the deck and one strip out later you're set.
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