The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Table hoppers & party strollers » » Whosematerial do you perform the most? (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
sirbrad
View Profile
Inner circle
PA
2013 Posts

Profile of sirbrad
I still do effects from some of those guys today and they work in the modern world. In fact Lorayne's "The Magic Book" is one of the first books that I got way back then and I still do several effects from that book today. I also use some Bannon, Vernon and Dingle effects as well. I love Bannon's DVD sets. It is not tired to laymen who have never seen it, maybe to a magician who watches it all the time. Or with a tired performance and no ability to do it correctly, but the material itself still works. Classics still work for a reason. I love some of the new stuff as well but I also love the old classics that have stood the test of time for so long, and still do with the right presentation.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
bishthemagish
View Profile
Inner circle
6036 Posts

Profile of bishthemagish
I don't see anything wrong with routines by, Lorayne, Dingle, Jennings, Vernon, Daley, or Roth. I have learned a lot from all of them. And many of the Harry Lorayne card effects I learned when I started table Hopping magic for a living - I still do.

I can say the same for Daley, Dingle, Jennings, Vernon, And Roth.

I guess perhaps it takes and entertainer and a showman to do this kind of magic.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
sirbrad
View Profile
Inner circle
PA
2013 Posts

Profile of sirbrad
Yeah, tricks don't make magicians magicians make tricks. It is the entertainer who has to transform those trick into magical masterpieces. The tricks are just tools in the toolbox. I guess every effect and principle in the Tarbell books are also tired and no longer work today, even though almost every new effect today is based on those tricks and principles in the books.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
Christopher Lyle
View Profile
Inner circle
Dallas, Texas
5698 Posts

Profile of Christopher Lyle
The original poster asked who's "material" do you do...not what "tricks" do you do which was what prompted my response...

I don't do ANYONE's material. I write my own. I don't do "patter" (geeze, I hate that term). My material is 100% my own!
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
sirbrad
View Profile
Inner circle
PA
2013 Posts

Profile of sirbrad
I think it was pretty obvious that he wanted to know what magician's material you buy as he stated in his post as an example. He did not ask who's material you are buying and "making your own." He bascially wanted to know what effects you bought and from who the most, Harris, Sankey, Osterlind etc. You can make it your own routine, modify it, add your own patter, storyline, whatever you ant to call it, but it is still not your effect as you did not invent it. So spare me the elitist attitude.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
Christopher Lyle
View Profile
Inner circle
Dallas, Texas
5698 Posts

Profile of Christopher Lyle
Quote:
On 2012-11-07 18:12, sirbrad wrote:
You can make it your own routine but it is still not your effect as you did not invent it.


I own a Rainbow Deck and I created an effect with it. It's 101% original to me. So is it my own since I didn't invent the Rainbow Deck? I also carry a foam ear for a routine I created. Other people use foam products too. So is it my own b/c other people use other foam products? The same can be said with Sponge Balls. Did I create the sponge balls? No! Goshman did. But my Sponge Ball routine is 101% completely my own original idea.

I can keep going but I think you get my point...
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
sirbrad
View Profile
Inner circle
PA
2013 Posts

Profile of sirbrad
You are reading into this WAY too much. Those are universal props and utilities not "effects." You are twisting it now for the sake of arguing. The OP did not ask that. He simply wanted to know what effects everyone was buying and from which magicians, period. Did you invent every "effect" in your act? No, you said yourself you had Extreme Burn etc. That is still not your effect regardless of how you present it. It is pretty simple what the OP was asking.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
Christopher Lyle
View Profile
Inner circle
Dallas, Texas
5698 Posts

Profile of Christopher Lyle
Quote:
On 2012-11-07 18:26, sirbrad wrote:
He simply wanted to know what effects everyone was buying and from which magicians, period.


He didn't ask that. What he asked was...

Quote:
Whose material do you find using the most?


...to which I responded "MINE" b/c I only use MY MATERIAL! You're the one arguing with me not the other way around. Quit trying to turn this into an argument.

Let it die and move on....won't you please. Smile
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
sirbrad
View Profile
Inner circle
PA
2013 Posts

Profile of sirbrad
So now you post only one part of his post out of context? OK let's look at the rest you left out.

"My repertoire consists of a lot of Sankey and Harlan. What about you guys? Any favorite effects, etc?"

He wasn't looking for the answer "mine". Anyone can say that, I do my own routunes also and tricks that are mine. I also do a lot of other magician's tricks that I bought the rights to. However unless you invented every trick in your arsenal they are not yours. The routine can be yours but the trick/effect isn't. He clearly stated favorite EFFECT. So yeah I will move on because you are clearly the only one who missed the entire "point".
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
Carl Andrews
View Profile
Special user
Maui, Hawaii
748 Posts

Profile of Carl Andrews
Carl Andrews Smile
Christopher Lyle
View Profile
Inner circle
Dallas, Texas
5698 Posts

Profile of Christopher Lyle
Quote:
On 2012-11-07 19:17, sirbrad wrote:
So now you post only one part of his post out of context? OK let's look at the rest you left out.

"My repertoire consists of a lot of Sankey and Harlan. What about you guys? Any favorite effects, etc?"

He wasn't looking for the answer "mine". Anyone can say that, I do my own routunes also and tricks that are mine. I also do a lot of other magician's tricks that I bought the rights to. However unless you invented every trick in your arsenal they are not yours. The routine can be yours but the trick/effect isn't. He clearly stated favorite EFFECT. So yeah I will move on because you are clearly the only one who missed the entire "point".


Fine...you're right and I'm wrong. I'm sure you'll sleep better tonight now that you know that...
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
snm
View Profile
Elite user
437 Posts

Profile of snm
How did this turn into a debate? lol

I think my question is whose material (that you've bought) do you find the most useable in the real world?

I was just noticing the other night how most everything I performed at my restaurant was a Sankey effect or based on a Sankey effect. Of course they were "my" presentations and such. Certainly don't want to be a Sankey clone. lol

I've noticed a lot of my bar work consists of Dan Harlan's material or Dan Harlan inspired material.
Michael Baker
View Profile
Eternal Order
Near a river in the Midwest
11161 Posts

Profile of Michael Baker
Sirbrad, YOU are missing the point even though you are standing .assdeep in it. Except in EXTREMELY rare instances, none of these others names being tossed around invented their material either to a 100% degree. What you are doing is allowing one person to hold rights to a routine as if they are the creator simply because they have published it, and/or marketed it. The fact that another performer simply performs material does not disprove that they are indeed the inventor of it. If I use a jackhammer to crack an egg, I have not invented a new tool, nor have I created a new result. But, I have found a new application for the jackhammer, and a novel way of opening an egg. You are splitting hairs, but only those which serve your end.

I perform the cups and balls, the linking rings, and tons of other "classic plot" magic, but I do MY material, MY routine, and in some cases MY effects with these recognizable props. However, I do not disavow the fact that I am simply one point along the timeline of magic history. I would not be who I am had it not been for the many thousand magicians who came before me. This being true also makes true the fact that ALL these other names being bandied about are not true inventors. They are merely able to document their tiny point along that timeline.

If one magician does something novel with a standard set of rings, should he be seen as just doing the rings? And if so, should a magician who merely links and unlinks coathangers be seen as an inventor? There is a huge double standard in this thread.

Sadly, most magicians don't even get so far either doing something unusual with the familiar, or something familiar with the unusual. They just do second banana renditions of what they saw someone else do. Dealers thrive on that.

Many magicians today perform by rote, and cannot see beyond the end of their nose when it comes to instilling an "injected personna" (to use your words) into the routines, and instead hide behind a veil of "being one's self", because they are not even capable of exact duplication of material that they read somewhere else... which should actually read: saw on a DVD, lest we forget the rampant pandemic of visual-learner syndrome that seems to plague magicians now.

Many magicians these days are nothing more than cover bands of magic tricks, and most of those aren't even good enough to work at a trailer park wedding reception. But some of them are are much, much more than that. Forgive me, but I am really trying to wrap my tiny brain around how you can assume that Christopher's material and effects are not his own, yet perfectly willing to crown the heads of other magicians with no more proof in the offering. Please enlighten me, sir...
~michael baker
The Magic Company
SIX
View Profile
Inner circle
New York City
1774 Posts

Profile of SIX
Bill Malone, David Williamson, Asi Wind, My Own and Marlo/Vernon mainly.
wafflesthemagician
View Profile
New user
Vancouver, Canada
73 Posts

Profile of wafflesthemagician
I enjoy one-handed moves that only need a split-second to happen, they're... practical flourishes, that are magic in themselves. The ones I use the most from all of these would be Paul Harris' Instant Replay / Simple Switch, Lennart Green's Top Shot / Center Shot, & Mike Hankins' Slider Double.
slyhand
View Profile
Inner circle
Good ole Virginia
1890 Posts

Profile of slyhand
Quote:
On 2012-11-07 20:59, Michael Baker wrote:
Sirbrad, YOU are missing the point even though you are standing .assdeep in it. Except in EXTREMELY rare instances, none of these others names being tossed around invented their material either to a 100% degree. What you are doing is allowing one person to hold rights to a routine as if they are the creator simply because they have published it, and/or marketed it. The fact that another performer simply performs material does not disprove that they are indeed the inventor of it. If I use a jackhammer to crack an egg, I have not invented a new tool, nor have I created a new result. But, I have found a new application for the jackhammer, and a novel way of opening an egg. You are splitting hairs, but only those which serve your end.

I perform the cups and balls, the linking rings, and tons of other "classic plot" magic, but I do MY material, MY routine, and in some cases MY effects with these recognizable props. However, I do not disavow the fact that I am simply one point along the timeline of magic history. I would not be who I am had it not been for the many thousand magicians who came before me. This being true also makes true the fact that ALL these other names being bandied about are not true inventors. They are merely able to document their tiny point along that timeline.

If one magician does something novel with a standard set of rings, should he be seen as just doing the rings? And if so, should a magician who merely links and unlinks coathangers be seen as an inventor? There is a huge double standard in this thread.

Sadly, most magicians don't even get so far either doing something unusual with the familiar, or something familiar with the unusual. They just do second banana renditions of what they saw someone else do. Dealers thrive on that.

Many magicians today perform by rote, and cannot see beyond the end of their nose when it comes to instilling an "injected personna" (to use your words) into the routines, and instead hide behind a veil of "being one's self", because they are not even capable of exact duplication of material that they read somewhere else... which should actually read: saw on a DVD, lest we forget the rampant pandemic of visual-learner syndrome that seems to plague magicians now.

Many magicians these days are nothing more than cover bands of magic tricks, and most of those aren't even good enough to work at a trailer park wedding reception. But some of them are are much, much more than that. Forgive me, but I am really trying to wrap my tiny brain around how you can assume that Christopher's material and effects are not his own, yet perfectly willing to crown the heads of other magicians with no more proof in the offering. Please enlighten me, sir...


Nice. Nuff said.
I am getting so tired of slitting the throats of people who say that I am a violent psychopath.

Alec
sirbrad
View Profile
Inner circle
PA
2013 Posts

Profile of sirbrad
No thanks I will pass. I could type a 20 paragraph reposnse filled with useless rhetoric also, but as I said I am not going to take part in another long-winded useless debate since you also missed the point. I never said every effect had only one creator, in fact if you go back and read my post you would see that I said most of the effects principles today are found in Tarbell. So you can debate all day and night who created what, and I don't think you can provide any proof of who created anything first either. But that was not the point of this topic. Th epoint was what effects are you doing and who published them today. So continue on debating it if it gives you something to do, or you like hearing yourself talk like so many on here do. You are the one twisting it now simply to post and hear yourself talk as usual. So continue on until this thread goes 20 pages and gets locked, like 99% of other useless debate threads do.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
Alan Munro
View Profile
Inner circle
Kentwood, Michigan, USA
5729 Posts

Profile of Alan Munro
My influences are quite varied. To list them all would be an incredible task. And I always change the routine, because I always use multiple sources of information to make it look the way I envisioned it.
Felman
View Profile
New user
65 Posts

Profile of Felman
I think the old classics have their place in the magic as well as in the music; it is everything about the performance. As I am working a lot with contemporary music, I do feel that the classics are taking too much space in concert programs, but still wonder how can a conductor say about Beethoven's third symphony after an orchestral rehearsal: "Sigh... Also this piece belongs to that worn out garbage nobody should ever anymore perform..." Smile
j100taylor
View Profile
Inner circle
1122 Posts

Profile of j100taylor
Paul Harris and Harry Lorrayne.
Lakewood, Ohio
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Table hoppers & party strollers » » Whosematerial do you perform the most? (1 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.25 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL