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Zombie Magic Inner circle I went out for a beer and now have 8733 Posts |
Danny, great post putting things into perspective.
When the Masked @#@$% exposed a certain illusion on TV, Lance Burton immediately out it into his show. I don't get angry about the exposure hurting Magicians that perform XYZ trick, but that the public was cheated. They really don't want to know how it's done. |
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brainman Special user 970 Posts |
Wasn't this kind of effect also used by J. Sankey with cards...I liked it a lot!
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
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On 2012-11-28 19:21, rasmus wrote: Fake transfers? Finger palm? How to use a Thumb Tip for a silk vanish? Cups & Balls? Loading a cup? Things most of us never do on a show? O.K. then...........if you say so.
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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Card Detective New user 98 Posts |
But isn´t the method of the trick obvious to anyone watching?. The first time I watched a promotion of this effect I wondered why the secret was being offered for sale. The secret is obvious surely. I do not agree with exposure, but secrets of magic were exposed to us all. It is how we got into magic. We were taught simple tricks. This is such a simple trick.
Fluent Spanish speaker, if I can help anyone, let me know.
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rasmus Inner circle Switzerland 1696 Posts |
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On 2012-11-29 05:57, Card Detective wrote: yes, but we paid for the exposure because we were interested to learn the trick, that's what makes the difference. I'm very sure, that many people don't want to know the secret because they love the aspect of the impossible and the magical sensation.
A World without Magic is a World without Dreams and Hope:)
Creator of: STEEL (performed by Dynamo), X-RAY, Real Coin Bend (performed by Dynamo), Totally Crazy Bands, Rasmus Haunted Deck, MCF CARDS, Jawbreaker, CRAZY CARD CHANGE, POLTERGEIST, STEEL Stage Version, X-RAY Stage Version http://rasmusmagic.ch |
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Xpilot Elite user Florida 464 Posts |
Maybe they were just exposing to help teach the scientific principles. According to this thread that's okay:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&start=0 |
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Ihop Inner circle Glen Spey, NY 1604 Posts |
This is not the first or last time this type of thing has happened.
So what can we, as magicians, do about this? For one, Magic organizations, such as, SAM, IBM, and others, can start a blackball list of magicians that expose, steal, etc. This list would have to be centralized and controlled by someone or a committee. This list can be distributed to event organizers for the purpose of banning the magician. Also distribute to clubs so they do not invite the banned magician from lectures & meetings. Ban them from clubs. Distribute the list to dealers, informing them that magicians will not buy their products. Etc., etc. This at least may give the exposer or stealer of tricks some thought before he/she does something that hurts the magic community. Do you think this may help?
Ihor
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Mark_Chandaue Inner circle Essex UK 4187 Posts |
Quote: Exposure is very easy to determine, stealing tricks is a lot harder as was demonstrated by the recent thread about echo. Like the earlier poster I was doing "Pressure" in the 80's with various objects including packs of cards and stopped because it was becoming too well known. I wasn't even aware it had been released as "Pressure" until I saw the youtube of it being exposed. Similar in fact to Tom Wrights serial number routine which was also exposed lately and was so well known in the mid 80's that it became not worth doing.
On 2012-11-29 12:16, Ihop wrote: Hmm the 2 latest routines to be exposed on TV are oldies that someone has packaged up and marketed - co-incidence? Theft is a tough one to call, the first person to package something up and market something is not necessarily the originator. There is a single trick DVD out with a routine I developed before the person that released it on DVD was even born. He definitely did not steal it from me, his version is more basic and goes down a different route and due to my hiatus I doubt he even knows I exist. I did share it with Michael Ammar in around 1990 and gave him permission to publish it along with a few other things he liked. Someone else had the same idea as me (probably at the same age as I was when I had the idea). God knows how many others have independently come up with the same idea and not one of them deserves to be accused of theft. Should I ever decide to release a DVD including my version of the already published effect I am sure there are people that would accuse me of "stealing" will that stop me? Hell no, whilst my routines have not been published I have shown them to Michael Ammar, Michael Vincent, John Carey, Kevin Reay (RIP), Roberto Giobbi, Jack Delvin, John Lenahan, Jerry Sadowitz and many other respected magicians 20 years or more ago, Mind you I'd only include my version if I thought my version added something new (or should that be old) to the already published version. That said a lot of books and DVD's have been published during my hiatus from magic so who knows how much of the stuff I came up with in the 70's and 80's has been rethought of since and is hidden away in books, lecture notes and dvd's. So my point is exposure is prety clear cut, but don't be too quick to accuse someone of stealing because there are very few new ideas in magic and great minds often do think alike. Mark |
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Danny Kazam Inner circle 1516 Posts |
Excellent point Mark. Just recently I heard someone was going to market a trick where you can make smoke appear from your finger tips. The method is the same method that has been around for years, and even shown all over the internet. If the trick ever did make it to market or not is something I'm not sure of, but considering the method is already exposed on the internet, wouldn't the guy trying to market it be the thief since they never created it, or came up with the idea? Should they be allowed to cash in on it and claim it's their intellectual property? Sure, it's called Capitalism, but for me it's a complicated question, because how does it become their intellectual property? To be honest, I have more things to worry about that a trick being exposed on a t.v show. Now, if Pressure was my only effect that got great reactions, I suppose I would be angry, but I would take that anger and challenge myself to come up with new material. I try to keep myself fresh, which is hard enough this days.
To complain about exposure when it hasn't effected your work is like complaining about bad weather all day when it's sunny and warm outside. I'm not against exposure because I spent money for it and others get it for free. My beef when it comes to exposure is when someone does it intentionally to hurt the art of magic. I don't think the intent was to hurt the art of magic. P.S what's the difference between exposure on t.v and another magician posting the video of it on the net in a public forum for everyone to see?
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
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Ihop Inner circle Glen Spey, NY 1604 Posts |
[quote]On 2012-11-29 13:45, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
Quote:
So my point is exposure is prety clear cut, but don't be too quick to accuse someone of stealing because there are very few new ideas in magic and great minds often do think alike. You're right. Stealing would be difficult to include. Especially if it turns out the accuser(s) are wrong. It would have to be clear cut & obvious. No gray areas.
Ihor
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Danny Kazam Inner circle 1516 Posts |
Google Pressure by daniel Garcia exposed and see where it comes up at. Your thread you started comes right at the top of the google search. You have come on a public forum that anyone has access to, even those who are not registered members of the Café and posted a video exposing the method to not only other magicians, and hobbyists (some of them probally never knew how it was done until now), but to the general public in cyberspace. All more easier for someone looking to find the method to Pressure. You can't argue that.
Because it was already exposed on some t.v show that very little people watched makes it okay to then post the video on the Magic Café for everyone to see? I don't think you are exposing it intentionally, but you are in fact exposing it. It doesn't matter if you think your only exposing it to other magicians. What makes that different. And why do you assume everyone here is a magician. Some here are just hobbyist, and the curious minded. I don't care, and it doesn't bother me, but it's wierd that you think it's okay to post a video exposing the method to Pressure, and then claim to be ****ed off because so t.v show did it. And please don't tell me to stop writing everlasting incredibly long statements. It might encourage me to write even longer ones? (lol)And, I do believe I'm on topic. I don't have anything against you, it's just that I have seen several people come on here, ****ed off about someone posting a video exposing a trick, and then they go and bring more attention to it by posting it here. Doesn't make sense to me, sorry. I think you are a great guy and I love some of your other posts. Like I said, on a personal level it doesn't bother me, just confused that someone would bring attention to a show or video exposing a trick. The best thing to do is ignore it and not bring more attention to it. We could of discussed this without a link to the video of the exposure, don't you agree. Actually, if you look at the rules of the Café, it fobids anyone posting a video exposing a trick.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
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pepka Inner circle Uh, I'm the one on the right. 5041 Posts |
Countless classics have been exposed on TV over the years and still THRIVE in repertoires around the world. My favorite is the linking rings. I've even seen performers reference the gaff that was exposed on TV, and then go on to fool the pants off the audience with the exact same gaff. I say whooptie freakin' doo.
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magicPhred New user 44 Posts |
I am going to show my hand here a bit, and I have already said this a few times in the past. Do you know where I go when I am curious to find out how a trick is done? Here. This forum and it's reviews and posts in latest and greatest, will almost always tell me how a trick works. Eventually someone will post something about the 'glue wearing off', or someone else will state that 'he lost the duplicate card' or 'that they can rough smooth their own deck'. It can certainly take more work, however that is fun for me..
I can't say that this forum exposes every trick that it talks about, but next to youtube, it's got to be up there with the website that exposes the most magic. Especially new tricks. That being said: Pressure. I first saw pressure on TV a few years ago. I immediately went to my 'junk drawer' at home and grabbed a balloon and a deck of cards and did it my 3rd try. I tried it a few times, and showed my wife. She thought it was cool. Later (an hour maybe) she told me how I did it. I probably didn't perform it well, but I wouldn't call pressure an audience killer... |
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MR Effecto Inner circle 2836 Posts |
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On 2012-11-30 15:59, magicPhred wrote: I would have to say the same thing. Not that showing how effects are done on T.V. that's sux. But the effect pressure to me was way easy to figuer out. I don't care for it much |
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magicPhred New user 44 Posts |
Note: when I said I saw pressure on tv, I meant I saw it performed. Not exposed. I knew how it was done almost immediately, and went to my junk drawer to get stuff to try it. Sorry if I caused confusion. Also I think exposure sux too.
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rasmus Inner circle Switzerland 1696 Posts |
Yes I understand that this has been exposed before.
But honestly guys: do you really think, that the audience figures this out immediatly? It's really true and you have to believe me, that this effect is in my walk around repertoire since a longer time and that I get extremely good reactions out of it. Perhaps my specs are different? Do swiss people think different or slower? No, because I've done this trick in different countries for very different people. I forgot to mention: the video I posted was never listed on youtube. I turned the video to private now.
A World without Magic is a World without Dreams and Hope:)
Creator of: STEEL (performed by Dynamo), X-RAY, Real Coin Bend (performed by Dynamo), Totally Crazy Bands, Rasmus Haunted Deck, MCF CARDS, Jawbreaker, CRAZY CARD CHANGE, POLTERGEIST, STEEL Stage Version, X-RAY Stage Version http://rasmusmagic.ch |
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Futureal Inner circle 1695 Posts |
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On 2012-11-28 18:03, rasmus wrote: The Merlin Award is a joke. It is given to those who pay money to receive it. http://magicunlimited.typepad.com/magic_......rds.html |
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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts |
For some reason, I don't know why, the ending finish up move in Pressure doesn't compute with me - though people say it's a real fooler. So I do the ending move my own way, but you can't borrow an object, you usually have to use your own. It's great to borrow an object and use it, but in this case I can finish the trick and the object is really in the balloon and you can hand it out or blow it up and jiggle the object around. I sometimes wait for them to ask before showing the object in the balloon, like I'm hiding something, I may even pretend to resist, and then finally give in and show it, and they flip out sometimes. They often think they know what I'm doing when I do the initial move, because it's semi-obvious, so when I show the object really in the balloon it works really well.
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
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Don Dasher Special user 535 Posts |
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On 2012-11-30 16:37, magicPhred wrote: Same here. Wasn't fooled for a second by that trick so it hardly feels like exposure to me DD |
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Zombie Magic Inner circle I went out for a beer and now have 8733 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-12-01 16:58, Futureal wrote: The Magic Café's Steve Brooks won the Merlin Award: http://themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic......start=30 Are you saying he paid for the award for publicity, as that article suggests? |
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