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TheDean Inner circle Reno, Nevada 2164 Posts |
Thanks Brother!
Didn’t happen too often, but I have cut checks on occasion to all my vendors while still waiting to get paid... sometimes it’s just part of the biz. (Especially with Government Agencies) - I have also had talent step-up and say to just pay them when I get paid. That is the nicest thing about this business… it's a family thing for the most part, which is WHY it’s sometimes hard to draw any specific line in the sand to land on. I care and feel for my performers/vendors/talent while taking care of the bigger picture. The RESULTS for the buyers and end users… which most often is the GUESTS and ATTENTIES at each event even though they typically have no real moneyed skin in the game. As we always say: “Children Get Rewarded For Being ‘Good’. - - Adults (Savvy Business Professionals) Get Rewarded For Delivering Value Added RESULTS.” As an business-owner and agent, I created value-added results for all sides of the equation. – The BUYER as well as the Talent as well as the end-user… and I was never an employee of any of them. Even when I performed and produced all my Casino Showroom Review Shows… still all independent contractor on all sides of the fence. Pretty clear really. Hope That Serves… ~ Deano in Reno <><
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success! "Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…" (*Marketing Doctor) |
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David Marcus New user 3,375.97 miles outside of Paris, France. 81 Posts |
Hi Deano. How's tricks in Reno.
The function you describe is known as a Talent Broker; slightly different that the Booking Agent I described above. In any case, it can be clearly seen that useful dialog isn't possible until all parties agree on the definitions of terms and duties. Personally, I don't care if the person paying me calls himself Fred Flintstone as long as his check clears. Actually, if he did call himself that I'd want paid in cash. Dave
“Next to music, beer was best.” - Carson McCullers
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
That was my point. The regional definitions are not really important. It is the fact that once you "fire" this person your bank account is light by 6 grand. Call her what you like it is not relevant. (Though it was nice of you fellows to provide that sort of help.)
It is about relationships and if you want to let one go just because she didn't say please, well ok. Not my business.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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TheDean Inner circle Reno, Nevada 2164 Posts |
Thanks… B-I-N-G-O Brother Danny!
Agent, Event Planner/Producer and Show Producer have functioned same as to THIS discussion... "Independent Contractor" (NOT an Employee or Working For The Talent) regardless of what each one wants to 'call' it. Merry Christmas! Hope That Serves… ~ Dean <><
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success! "Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…" (*Marketing Doctor) |
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Jamie D. Grant V.I.P. as seen in Ripley's Believe It or Not! Twice! 2413 Posts |
Don't know how I ended up here, but...
Whoever pays me moohlah is a client. Can you fire a client? In a sense, sure; you can refuse their business. That said, the only thing I try to do to any of my clients is give them my thanks. My 2 cents, jamie
TRICK OF THE YEAR: Industrial Revelation, BOOK OF THE YEAR: The Approach, The AIP Bottle, and my new book Scenic 52, can all be found over here: SendWonder.com
Kindness takes practice. My TEDx talk |
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RayAnderson New user Toronto Canada 41 Posts |
I love the fact that about 20 posts ago the original poster said the post is closed...he stopped his part of the conversation. Yet the tread continued...love it
Ray Anderson
www.coolmagician.com |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10585 Posts |
Content isn't always just for the original poster as others become invested in it as well.
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RayAnderson New user Toronto Canada 41 Posts |
I understand, just find it fun to watch.
Ray Anderson
www.coolmagician.com |
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yankay37 Regular user Canada 176 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-12-20 12:44, Dimitri Mystery Artist wrote: Exactly... I agree.... However... you should still have a good relationship with your agent. If it's not there.. don't try to teach or change a person.. just move on to a new one until you find a person you're comfortable with. |
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Nick Singh Regular user Singapore 133 Posts |
Seems like a simple situation to me. Either suck it up and continue to work with this 'agent' while she ****es you off or you could just cut the relationship and lose future $ equivalent to about 6k or more.
I know what I would do. If she's truly a bi*** who won't change then ending your relationship is the best choice. There's no point letting a few thousand affect your personal life. You may even end up venting your frustrations on your family and friends.
Magician and Emcee in Singapore - www.nick.com.sg
Youtube channel of travel videos and podcasts - www.youtube.com/user/blackchilliwing/videos |
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tacrowl Inner circle Maryland 1633 Posts |
I want to thank WizardofSorts for starting this thread. It inspired me to sit down with some agents to discuss the business from their side. They share exactly what they do, how they get clients, the mindset of the agent, the mindset of their clients, what an act needs to have marketing-wise, how to approach them and how to work with them. The clips will start to release on Entertainment Experts later this year. (We are already scheduled to September and only a few videos short of our first full year!)
Hopefully, these agent interview clips will remove the mystery that seems to surround working with talent agents. You can see a sneak preview at: http://youtu.be/iWPC7RPIn6c where Terry Gehman, a fair/festival and small corporate event agent, talks about marketing materials and offers advice on demo videos. If you like what you see, subscribe to the YouTube channel for updates, or visit the web site and sign up for our newsletter. Tom |
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magic 12376 Regular user Wilkes-Barre Pa 116 Posts |
I don't care what you consider any of the above. Bottom line is, do fhey increase my bottom line? Maybe 6,000 isn't a make or break amount of money, but I would still say its nothing to sneeze at. So ,wizard of sorts.....suck it up! Respond to her emails, return phone calls...its worth 6,000 to do so. If in the end you really despise doing so, I vuess you can take the loss. Otherwise hire a manager. Let them do allthis stuff for you, then after paying them decide if not having to return a phone call or two and a couple e mails was worth the added expense.
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
The client is the one paying both the agent and talent. The talent relies on the agent to send him/her suitable work, and the agent relies on the talent to carry out the performance they took the time to find. It doesn't matter who sends the 20 or 80%, both rely on each other. If one party is upset with the work relationship they can go elsewhere. Problem solved
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Chad Sanborn Inner circle my fingers hurt from typing, 2205 Posts |
Traditionally, an agent works for the entertainer/actor. They don't get paid unless you book a show/role. Then they take 10-15% of your check.
You are paying the agent because they have access to the people who book shows/roles that you want. And they submit you for those positions that you fit. Agents have other benefits as well, but that's beyond the scope of this thread. If you have another arrangement with the people who book your shows, that is fine. But, then that relationship no longer fits the traditional Agent/Actor or Agent/Entertainer mold. Now if you are upset with your relationship with your Agent, then its up to you to either fix it or terminate it. If you are booking work, an agent will probably not terminate your relationship. Because if they do, they are eliminating a stream of income. Also keep in mind that as an Agent, they only get paid for each act they book. So the more they book the more they make. So time is money to them. Short emails/text messages are the norm in the entertainment industry. Agents simply have zero time to write long emails just to help you feel better about yourself. But if you really feel this person is mean then talk to them about it. If it doesn't improve to your liking then end the relationship. Chances are, that if they are making enough money off of you, they will compromise with you. |
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TheDean Inner circle Reno, Nevada 2164 Posts |
"Hi, my name is DEAN and I'm a former agent/producer." - - (Group Response: "HI Dean!")
As a (recovering) Agency/Production House Owner, (Though I still book people and serve event buyers… 3 more casinos this week alone. See... still serving my addiction to help people!) my FIRST Aim And Chief Responsibility is (and always was) to work for the BUYER. - - NOT the talent. Obviously; No ‘BUYER’… No booking… No Money… No Event and way to book ANY kind of talent in the first place. – The work is for the BUYER. - - Regardless of my current status, I will always do my best to serve though I am not officially an 'agent/producer'. - - Pray for me, I am powerless... I MUST Serve People Who Need My Help.
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success! "Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…" (*Marketing Doctor) |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
If you bite the hand that feeds you it could drastically reduce the amount of food that you eat.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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tacrowl Inner circle Maryland 1633 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-01 12:54, Chad Sanborn wrote: When working with an agent - you are not the one booking work, they are. Dean laid it out above - the agent's job is to fill the client's entertainment needs. They do that by recommending acts that fit their specific requirements, and the client is the one who makes the final decision. An agent won't book "you" to earn money - most have filing cabinets full of entertainers and book an act the client wants. That is how they earn their living. I'll share two more unlisted clips from my interview with agent Terry Gehman, who specializes in fairs and small corporate events: How To Work With A Talent Agent: http://youtu.be/Ew96SkjhBLs and How Talent Agencies Get Clients - A Behind The Scenes Look: http://youtu.be/0IwK07DR1Mg |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Magicians think that they simply know all. Surprise they don't.
Most run such horrible businesses it is embarassing. This is an inbred industry with plenty of professionals and gurus who can't make a living performing so they sell crappy information. Agents or talent buyers or whatever label you want to use have relationships you do not. They are paid for you being able to use that very spacific relationship. If you don't like it then don't work for them. If you think they are taking too much don't take the job. Fact is that their client is not the talent. Their client is the person who is writing the check. As a matter of fact that holds true all the way down the line. Your client writes you the check. In many cases your client is the agent. I don't get the confussion.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10585 Posts |
This is correct. In any business the customer or client is the one paying for the service. Magicians do not want to realize and understand an agent or agency has to work to get those clients. They are much harder to find than the talent. The talent is much easier to find. To today's agent it is all about serving the needs of the client not the talent.
Years ago this was different, an agent actually worked hard on behalf of the talent usually under exclusive agreements, but in today's agency marketplace for the common level of entertainer (not celebrities) this is the new norm - having you on a roster or talent pool to chose from while working with and for the client. Many agents today book talent not even on their roster of the client requests it. |
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Chad Sanborn Inner circle my fingers hurt from typing, 2205 Posts |
Quote:
I guess the term Agent means different things to different people depending on what type of work you do. In acting, and AGENT WORKS FOR YOU! They don't get paid unless you book a role. They don't get paid any money for submitting you for auditions. So they tend to be pickier in who they take on as clients. Its the agents job to negotiate your fees/contract and for that they take 10% commission. In the magic world, the agents I have worked with do basically the same thing. they submit me for work and negotiate the price/contract. My audition process is different in that I am usually booked by either word of mouth or based on promo materials instead of a face to face audition. But the relationship is the same. They are not making any money unless I book a gig. Now if you have experience doing it some other way its fine. It just doesn't fit what the typical, Agent/Talent role usually is. Its not wrong, its just different. If the person who hires you for the job is your 'agent' then that person is also considered the casting director or sometimes the entertainment director. And then they are no longer doing the job of an agent. Although you may see it that way, since they booked you. But in most types of the entertainment industry, agents cannot book you for a role. |
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