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aguitardrew
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I would like to tell all of you that have engaged in this post Thank You. It has been fun and please know that I am looking at it as a spirited discussion and I enjoy your replies and replying to you all. You all seem like a bunch of good guys so please don't take anything I say personally (about prices etc. ) The difference here is that you are collectors and I merely someone who fell into a very limited amount of a collection (8 pieces or so). They mean nothing to me other than monetary value because of that.

I wish all of you a Merry Christmas and happy new year as well!!!!!!
aguitardrew
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John,

One more thing. I did take your advice and expertise. I DO have listed in my auction that the trick is not complete. Again the only trick I have strayed from as far as value (your expertise) is the rainbow hank. I just believe that it is something special. I have searched all over google and found only 2 people who have one. That makes it quite rare I think.
Richard Kaufman
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The Rainbow Hank with a flag is not that rare. It's worth about $100. I used to have several. If you want to sell it, put it up at $50 and let people bid. Don't be greedy or you'll never sell it.
aguitardrew
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Thanks for your reply Richard. Do you still have them? If so are you selling them? There seem to be conflicting reports on here. However Stereo seems to be the "top dog" on this forum and in the world of Tenyo.

This is taken from Stereo's blog "note where he says very rare"

The magician shows his hands empty and yet magically produces a string of colourful silk flags from nowhere. The Tenyo version of the famous "Silks of the 20th century"...
Tenyo produced a limited series of this trick where the central silk was replaced by the U.S.A flag. This very rare version is now out of print and the packaging is different from the original.

This second quote is taken from a U.K. Tenyo collectors site.



Although I still have a too-long list of rare Tenyo that I'm hoping to someday find, I think the most uncommon one in my collection is the U.S Flag Rainbow Silks trick. I wrote to Hiroshi Kondo inquiring about it and he replied that NO ONE at tenyo had ever heard of or seen it before

http://www.tenyoworld.co.uk/Collectors.htm

Sounds rare. I'll take my chances. I can always relist if I have to.

Thanks
aguitardrew
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More evidence that this is a very rare trick. Killertweety's collection. Note that t-23 is missing.

Richard, if you still have some of those, it appears that Killertweety, and several others collections are missing them. Maybe you can help them out.

http://www.tenyo.be/collection.html
John Mazza
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Killertweety, Richard Kaufman and Myself tell you that a complete one in nice box it is worth $100 (yours is not complete, your are missing two important items and the trick cannot be performed) and you still want to rely on a quote from an inactive collector from an extinct website from many years ago. At that time it might have seemed to Steve that it was rare but it is really not that rare. I actually have a second one but like yours it is incomplete.

You are a STUBBORN fellow, but if you are not picking up what we are laying down, then at least our fellow members and friends here will read and know to avoid your auction for the INCOMPLETE small box trick for $400.

What you are doing on the auctions site I call a "Spider Web." Throw something ridiculous out there and hope that someone who does not know better get stuck with your junk. You already admitted that you paid about $1 for it why not do as Richard says and let the auction determine how rare it is? And Richard clearly says "I USED to have several." He had a major collection but sold most of it off a while back.

When Stereo sold the Ultra Tube for 605 Euro (about $750) that was the only one that was sold for quite a while. Since then many have been sold and we all saw that it was not as scarce as it seemed to be and the guy who won the auction severely over paid. Since April, ten Ultra Tubes have been sold on the big auctions site.

So when someone told you that they sold for between $200 and $800 dollars, what they should have told you is that they sell for between $120 - $400 with one going for $750, but for the most case the price is between $200 and $300 dollars.

4/4/12 Ultra Tube with Package for $120 (Buy It Now)
4/14/12 Ultra Tube with Package for 605 euro (approx. $750)
4/29/12 Ultra Tube without Package for 200 euro (approx. $260)
7/8/12 Ultra Tube with Package for $400.05
8/6/12 Ultra Tube without Package for $281.39
8/14/12 Ultra Tube without Package $316
8/26/12 Ultra Tube with Package for $187.50
9/1/12 Ultra Tube with Package for $237.50
9/13/12 Ultra Tube with Package for $260
12/16/12 Ultra Tube with Package for 190 euro (approx. $307)

Your listing the Ultra Tube for $250 starting price is good and I think it will sell. It will not sell for your $500 Buy It Now price. And your loose Card Frame will never sell for your Buy It Now price of $200 or even your starting price of $90. I think you would be lucky to get $40 for it.

Anyway, I think I have said enough.

I would suggest you give it up as well. As you continue, you are just digging yourself into a deeper hole. You obviously do not have the type of knowledge on Tenyo as we have here but you come into our house and are trying to "school us." IMO not cool.

Merry Christmas to you too.
stereo
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And For my Ultra-Tube I have start the auction at 1$ with no reserve, and the package was really as new in perfect condition.
But If I put my Ultra Tube at Buy it Now for $ 500 or even 400$, I'm sure nobody would have bought, never.
It is often a matter of luck unfortunately...

It had already been a big problem for John who had attacked and criticized me after I sold my Ultra Tube. I was greedy, selfish, dishonest etc etc... It was a kind of "UltraTube Gate" lol I think John was hard to accept the concept of wanting to sell items at the best possible price (while yet I put it on sale at $ 1 starting price and no reserve ). So I think that you should not take it badly, it's really just a difference of appreciation of things. And finally today things are arranged.

Nevertheless, some very patient seller can list items to very High prices, they do not sell for months, but one day he ends up selling. So if you have the time and patience, maybe one day you'll have a stroke of luck.

Good Luck and I think it will really take a lot of luck for you to sell your tricks Smile
aguitardrew
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John, I'm not trying to school you at all. I came into your house, asked a few questions about what I had and graciously thanked all of you for your help. You all then decided (not all of you) to start the negative comments after I set my prices and I responded merely to defend myself. Your comments are clearly unfounded and I have proved to you through your own websites and posts that half of what you tell me is obviously not true. Tweety says its not rare, yet his collection does not have one. One of the "most complete collections in the world". Stereo's site says very rare. But when I point this out there are no responses to that. Tweety also said I believe 75 bucks was a good starting price for the frame with cards. So I shot higher. You bash my prices but you sell things for close to the same "225 for ultra tube" and then say you went below fair value. Make up your mind. I just wanted some good info on these tricks so I could essentially learn a bit about them and set me prices accordingly. I have followed your guidance on most of the tricks except the flag. Your simply mad because I found out what these were worth I think. Most of the time people don't find out and end up selling them for 5 bucks on ebay and you then "rip them off". However if they are happy to get the 5 dollars for it is it a rip? no. When talking about tricks like these, value is only perceived. I mean really 300 dollars for an ultra tube? I wouldn't spend more than 5 bucks on it just on principle. I really don't even think its that great of a trick. I was truly shocked to find out its value. However if someone wants to pay that for it and I have it, I will gladly sell it for that. Simple as that.

I will be happy to buy any of your american flag rainbow silks complete for 75-100 dollars as well. Just let me know.

Good day.
aguitardrew
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Stereo,

Thanks for your reply and thanks for the awesome website you have. Its a great resource and very impressive.

Thanks for the luck lol. I probably do need it.
John Mazza
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Stereo you really disappoint me by bringing that up again.

I have genuinely apologized to you personally and we have had a very pleasant relationship since then.

I do not understand.
aguitardrew
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Stereo,

Thanks for your reply and thanks for the awesome website you have. Its a great resource and very impressive.

Thanks for the luck lol. I probably do need it.
John Mazza
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Aguitardrew. Keep digging, you are almost in China.
aguitardrew
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John do you consider 10 days between sales to be a long period of time? that's what you posted. I guess I started my auction to low. One sold for 120 and then 10 days later one sold for 750?????

As I said I thanked you all for the information in the first place. You decided to come back on and turn it negative. I am simply defending myself and showing that what you have said is not the opinion of every tenyo collector. Namely that of several that I have pointed out on your own forum.

And now you are getting mad at Stereo for being logical. As were most of the other people on here.

You have contradicted every statement that you made (i have shown that) and now you want me to take your advice like its the only advice worth taking? Seems that you are digging deeper and deeper.
John Mazza
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Stereo,

Lets get a couple of things right.

I was not mad that you sold your item for a lot of money, I was mad that you did not sell it to me directly as I did not have one and asked you a week before about trading or selling it to me. I made to you what I though was a fair offer but obviously it was not in the $700 range. It was a great offer considering what they sell for now. I was frustrated at that time that people here were not giving me a fair chance at buying things from them other than Killer. My feeling was that we could do better if we worked together and helped each other to make our collections then working against each other. It was really working well for me as I amassed an entire collection of packaged Tenyo in six months. I wanted to share my experience. Many joined in and it worked well for them. Others criticized it as if it was a bad thing.

As far as selling things are concerned, I have no problem with making the most possible profits. I am just refreshed when someone is happy to sell something without getting obsesses with how much they sell it for. I have sold more Tenyo in the last year than anyone and I have made a lot of money. I have no problem with people selling things and making money.

And I never called you dishonest, that was some else.
John Mazza
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Keep digging
John Mazza
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Richard can you please post a pic of some digging to China.

Thank You
John Mazza
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I just figured it out.

Aguitardrew is actually Houdini ( former member here) reincarnated. He uses the same logic of insisting he is right when he is obviously wrong.

;-)
John Mazza
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Aguitardrew, besides proving that you know nothing about Tenyo, you obviously have a lack of understanding of how the big auction site works. And your disclaimers are a riot. All you need to do is the right thing and you will never need those disclaimers.
aguitardrew
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My disclaimers are quotes taken from your advice John lol. that's why I came here. To ask people what the trick was supposed to be in its entirety. Are you against people being honest in their auctions as well? There's no winning with you. lol I think it is more than fair to state what one knows about something, set a price and if someone buys it that's because they wanted to. If they can find them for 100 bucks all day long elsewhere clearly they will do that.

My logic of insisting I'm right is by using your own statements to prove you wrong. Its quite simple. Frankly I'm not sure why your keeping it up.

Clearly what your mad about is that you didn't get a chance to have me list all my tricks off to you in private so that you could understate their prices to me rip me off.

Quote "Stereo,

Lets get a couple of things right.

I was not mad that you sold your item for a lot of money, I was mad that you did not sell it to me directly as I did not have one and asked you a week before about trading or selling it to me. I made to you what I though was a fair offer but obviously it was not in the $700 range"

You also posted in a seperate thread 5 months ago or so that you did not have an ultra tube because they were so rare. Then you are selling them now for 225? Get it straight.

So your all about being a collector and you want to do the right thing for collectors right John?????

Quote from you

"My feeling was that we could do better if we worked together and helped each other to make our collections then working against each other. It was really working well for me as I amassed an entire collection of packaged Tenyo in six months. I wanted to share my experience. Many joined in and it worked well for them. Others criticized it as if it was a bad thing.

As far as selling things are concerned, I have no problem with making the most possible profits. I am just refreshed when someone is happy to sell something without getting obsesses with how much they sell it for. I have sold more Tenyo in the last year than anyone and I have made a lot of money. I have no problem with people selling things and making money. "

So which is it John? are you worried about helping collectors out or making money? You want to help everyone out you claim but you have mad "a lot of money".

Good for you and your money. Don't get mad when someone else wants to do the same thing though.

You sit on a thrown of lies and contradictions.

You said earlier that I'm selling an incomplete trick and its basically worthless. Then why do you own one? lol

Everyone else on here sounds pretty logical and with it but you are way off.
John Mazza
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Merry Christmas
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