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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Me playing with my christmas present. (Ambitious card routine) (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Gary T.
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Didn't read all of this forum, but you need practice, and a lot of it, tempted to make a video response to attempt to help you out a bit, but I'm not sure where to even start.
Billy-one
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I have honestly never read a single page of it. Am I really missing so much?

BIlly
Gary T.
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I read the first few, and skimmed the first few on the last page..... also, are you pointing your camera in a mirror or something? why is your shirt all backwards?
Gary T.
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Pretend billy-one's post isn't in the middle of my two, my internet is being horrible so the edit button wouldn't work for me to add the thoughts I forgot into it
Billy-one
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Gary T.

You can add onto mine, as a starting off point...or change what I have said, perhaps diffrent perspectives will help.

Billy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMfGgtTE2gE
mfeld
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Card College is my recommendation for where beginners should start as well. There are, of course, other good starter books out there, but Card College is the most accessible both in terms of availability and readability.

Nicholas - from what I can see of your card magic in this video, it's probably a good idea to start at the very beginning. You can find Card College 1 for about $35 on Amazon: http://amzn.to/X4Fg7s If that's not an investment you're willing to make in your own magic, then there is very little anyone will be able to do to help you. If you make the investment and get serious about studying it, then hopefully videos like this will become a thing of your past. I know you said you don't have any magic books yet. It's about time you changed that if you want to become competent with sleight of hand.

It's hard to deny: When someone who handles cards as well as Tony Chang (liquidsn) so definitively recommends you pick up that book, it's probably a good idea to listen.
Michael Feldman
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Steven Youell
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Quote:
On 2013-01-03 22:36, mfeld wrote:
If that's not an investment you're willing to make in your own magic, then there is very little anyone will be able to do to help you.

Yes, private lessons and/or mentorship are useless.

Quote:
On 2013-01-03 22:36, mfeld wrote:
It's hard to deny: When someone who handles cards as well as Tony Chang (liquidsn) so definitively recommends you pick up that book, it's probably a good idea to listen.

Of course, if someone else that is as skilled as Tony Chang is diametrically opposed to that book, then who is right?

sey

P.S. No, I am NOT referring to myself-- just pointing out how problematic this is.
mfeld
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Quote:
On 2013-01-03 22:54, Steven Youell wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-01-03 22:36, mfeld wrote:
If that's not an investment you're willing to make in your own magic, then there is very little anyone will be able to do to help you.

Yes, private lessons and/or mentorship are useless.


Let's set the sarcasm aside for a moment. My post was a genuine attempt to provide meaningful advice on the level that seems appropriate for what I've seen so far. The magic I saw in the video demonstrates a profound lack of understanding for what goes on in a magic effect and what makes magic good or bad. It seems that Nicholas is missing the basic building blocks that any discrete advice would try to build on top of. He is missing the fundamentals that he would even need to accept and truly understand the advice. Card College 1 can help with that, but until he has the fundamentals, it does not seem to me that the advice that can fit in a thread post or PM is going to be of much use. Recommending Card College and linking to a place that Nicholas can buy the book inexpensively is a genuine attempt to point Nicholas in the right direction from where he is right now so he can truly improve.

Sure. If Nicholas wants to invest in private lessons or find a full-time mentor to teach those real fundamentals, that would obviously be great, but that seems like a larger leap than just picking up the basic book and starting from there.

--
As for the hypothetical regarding a card handler of equal quality objecting to Card College as fervently as Tony recommends it, I'll wait to see if there's a time when that happens. In the meantime, I myself independently highly recommend Card College volume 1. I think its the best starting tool there is and it is almost always my recommendation for a first book.
Michael Feldman
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Steven Youell
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On 2013-01-03 23:16, mfeld wrote:
Quote:
Let's set the sarcasm aside for a moment.

OK

Quote:
On 2013-01-03 23:16, mfeld wrote:
My post was a genuine attempt to provide meaningful advice on the level that seems appropriate for what I've seen so far. The magic I saw in the video demonstrates a profound lack of understanding for what goes on in a magic effect and what makes magic good or bad.

What if I told you in public that your advice demonstrates a profound lack of understanding on how to teach magic?
Don't you think doing that in private would be more beneficial to all involved? Those reading this? You? Me?

Quote:
On 2013-01-03 23:16, mfeld wrote:
It seems that Nicholas is missing the basic building blocks that any discrete advice would try to build on top of.

He needs to learn discernment, which you cannot learn from just books. It requires much more than that and I'm not talking about humiliating him in public.

Quote:
On 2013-01-03 23:16, mfeld wrote:
Recommending Card College and linking to a place that Nicholas can buy the book inexpensively is a genuine attempt to point Nicholas in the right direction from where he is right now so he can truly improve.

I understand that you meant no harm and were genuinely trying to help. I'm sorry if I gave you the opposite impression.

Quote:
On 2013-01-03 23:16, mfeld wrote:
As for the hypothetical regarding a card handler of equal quality objecting to Card College as fervently as Tony recommends it, I'll wait to see if there's a time when that happens.

It's already happened. Just because someone doesn't post their opinion online or in public doesn't mean it didn't.
And just for the record-- this has nothing to do with Tony, per se. I highly respect him and his ability. But that
doesn't mean he and I have to agree on everything. At one time we had an argument, however at the last MagicCon, we
had a conversation that I'll value for the rest of my life.

Having said all of that, the last thing I want in my life right now is a heated argument. Nicholas isn't posting in this thread anymore and I can feel the temperature increasing. I will, therefore, stop annyoing you! LOL

sey
Gary T.
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Well, as for my video, I shot it, but I can't get it to upload because my internet is being horrible, I'll try to post it tomorrow.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2012-12-30 14:34, Harry Lorayne wrote:
No problem. There are opinions and opinions - you know the cliche, they're like *******s, everyone has one. In MY opinion, some opinions should not be stated publicly. That's it. Simple. That's MY opinion. Oh, and there is a LARGE difference between music, art, etc. They are not "niche" areas as is magic. There is quite a difference. If I say I really don't like Van Gogh, there's no way that opinion can hurt the Van Gogh estate, if there is such a thing. If I say I just LOVE Toulouse Lautrec - that sure "ain't" gonna help sell his paintings, since they sure as h*ll need no help from me. But if I say "opinionwise" that I LOVE Joe Blow's book on making animals disappear, that might just sell a few of Joe Blow's books within our "niche" society. And if I state "opinionwise" that I think Joe Blow's book on coin tricks is terrible - it may just hurt his sales in this "niche" society/milieu - SO I DON'T SAY IT, not publicly anyway. Sorry; from yours above I realize that you simply don't understand all this, so forgive me for stating my opinions. Sorry.


Doesn't that, potentially, weaken magic as a whole? That is, the opinions of people like yourself can have great influence in guiding others. That is why people look to reviews and comments of others. To help guide them through the crap.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Harry Lorayne
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I guess it's all according to WHOSE reviews, WHOSE comments. Then, choices need to be made. I guess. I read DEFINITE statements here from some who - and there's no way I can be sure of this - but from some who it seems do NOT have the knowledge, the know-how, to make those DEFINITE statements. Sorry - my opinion.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

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http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
mlippo
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Quote:
On 2013-01-04 08:56, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-12-30 14:34, Harry Lorayne wrote:
No problem. There are opinions and opinions - you know the cliche, they're like *******s, everyone has one. In MY opinion, some opinions should not be stated publicly. That's it. Simple. That's MY opinion. Oh, and there is a LARGE difference between music, art, etc. They are not "niche" areas as is magic. There is quite a difference. If I say I really don't like Van Gogh, there's no way that opinion can hurt the Van Gogh estate, if there is such a thing. If I say I just LOVE Toulouse Lautrec - that sure "ain't" gonna help sell his paintings, since they sure as h*ll need no help from me. But if I say "opinionwise" that I LOVE Joe Blow's book on making animals disappear, that might just sell a few of Joe Blow's books within our "niche" society. And if I state "opinionwise" that I think Joe Blow's book on coin tricks is terrible - it may just hurt his sales in this "niche" society/milieu - SO I DON'T SAY IT, not publicly anyway. Sorry; from yours above I realize that you simply don't understand all this, so forgive me for stating my opinions. Sorry.


Doesn't that, potentially, weaken magic as a whole? That is, the opinions of people like yourself can have great influence in guiding others. That is why people look to reviews and comments of others. To help guide them through the crap.


For a software developer, it all gets down to these simple few code lines:

If Someone.Opinion <> Lorayne.Opinion then
Someone.Opinion = Crap
Else
Someone.Opinion = GoodThinking
End if

mlippo
Harry Lorayne
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Now you're talkin'!! I don't understand it at all, but hey, Now you're talkin'!!!
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
Bandaloop
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Quote:
On 2013-01-04 11:04, mlippo wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-01-04 08:56, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-12-30 14:34, Harry Lorayne wrote:
No problem. There are opinions and opinions - you know the cliche, they're like *******s, everyone has one. In MY opinion, some opinions should not be stated publicly. That's it. Simple. That's MY opinion. Oh, and there is a LARGE difference between music, art, etc. They are not "niche" areas as is magic. There is quite a difference. If I say I really don't like Van Gogh, there's no way that opinion can hurt the Van Gogh estate, if there is such a thing. If I say I just LOVE Toulouse Lautrec - that sure "ain't" gonna help sell his paintings, since they sure as h*ll need no help from me. But if I say "opinionwise" that I LOVE Joe Blow's book on making animals disappear, that might just sell a few of Joe Blow's books within our "niche" society. And if I state "opinionwise" that I think Joe Blow's book on coin tricks is terrible - it may just hurt his sales in this "niche" society/milieu - SO I DON'T SAY IT, not publicly anyway. Sorry; from yours above I realize that you simply don't understand all this, so forgive me for stating my opinions. Sorry.


Doesn't that, potentially, weaken magic as a whole? That is, the opinions of people like yourself can have great influence in guiding others. That is why people look to reviews and comments of others. To help guide them through the crap.


For a software developer, it all gets down to these simple few code lines:

If Someone.Opinion <> Lorayne.Opinion then
Someone.Opinion = Crap
Else
Someone.Opinion = GoodThinking
End if

mlippo


to pare it down even further:

while(horse != alive)
{
beat;
}
gdw
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Quote:
On 2013-01-04 13:30, Bandaloop wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-01-04 11:04, mlippo wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-01-04 08:56, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-12-30 14:34, Harry Lorayne wrote:
No problem. There are opinions and opinions - you know the cliche, they're like *******s, everyone has one. In MY opinion, some opinions should not be stated publicly. That's it. Simple. That's MY opinion. Oh, and there is a LARGE difference between music, art, etc. They are not "niche" areas as is magic. There is quite a difference. If I say I really don't like Van Gogh, there's no way that opinion can hurt the Van Gogh estate, if there is such a thing. If I say I just LOVE Toulouse Lautrec - that sure "ain't" gonna help sell his paintings, since they sure as h*ll need no help from me. But if I say "opinionwise" that I LOVE Joe Blow's book on making animals disappear, that might just sell a few of Joe Blow's books within our "niche" society. And if I state "opinionwise" that I think Joe Blow's book on coin tricks is terrible - it may just hurt his sales in this "niche" society/milieu - SO I DON'T SAY IT, not publicly anyway. Sorry; from yours above I realize that you simply don't understand all this, so forgive me for stating my opinions. Sorry.


Doesn't that, potentially, weaken magic as a whole? That is, the opinions of people like yourself can have great influence in guiding others. That is why people look to reviews and comments of others. To help guide them through the crap.


For a software developer, it all gets down to these simple few code lines:

If Someone.Opinion <> Lorayne.Opinion then
Someone.Opinion = Crap
Else
Someone.Opinion = GoodThinking
End if

mlippo


to pare it down even further:

while(horse != alive)
{
beat;
}


Lmao!
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
LiquidSn
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You can get as opinionated as you want after you have learned the basics.

What's the point of arguing style, presentation, method, and/or theory when the kid doesn't even understand how to hold a deck?

I don't care if it's from Card College, Royal Road to Card Magic, Lorayne, Youell, and/or anybody else who want to pander their material, learn the basics first.

Then we can argue.
Blog about magic. by me.

Http://www.doublefacers.com
Steven Youell
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Quote:
On 2013-01-04 13:59, LiquidSn wrote:
I don't care if it's from Card College, Royal Road to Card Magic, Lorayne, Youell, and/or anybody else who want to pander their material, learn the basics first.

I do not understand what an almost extinct bear from Asia has to do with any of this.

sey
Gary T.
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Not sure if anybody is still interested, but here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5xvqe7BumM one thing I wanted to say in the video but forgot to is that you need to use a break on your DL, its just sloppy if you don't in the video you posted you messed one up because you weren't using a break, even if you hit it 3/4 times and feel awesome, that's 1/4th of the time your spectator is gonna have a laugh at your expense when you mess it up.
Steven Youell
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Quote:
On 2013-01-05 16:21, Gary T. wrote:
one thing I wanted to say in the video but forgot to is that you need to use a break on your DL, its just sloppy if you don't in the video you posted you messed one up because you weren't using a break, even if you hit it 3/4 times and feel awesome, that's 1/4th of the time your spectator is gonna have a laugh at your expense when you mess it up.

Gary, could you please clarify that? Are you saying that all DL's need a break? Are you saying that Strike or Pushoff DL's need a break?

sey
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