How much do your fees change in relation to the size of the audience?

Do you charge significantly more for a group of 200 than you do for a group of 50? If so...how do you justify it?

David

In general yes and no.

being that I offer bigger shows for larger audiences I therefore charge more.

however if I understand your question you are saying if I have show A and perform it for 50 people for X dollars do I raise that fee for a group of 200 people. while it being the same show.

in my book yes and no. first a show with a larger group will require bigger sound system and you using a mic. that's additional work and equipment you will need.

for me when I have a show with larger numbers besides the bigger sound system I also perform 2 or 3 different effects that play well for larger groups.

example my money die box is great at birthdays or early learning center with 50-75 kids but with 200 or more people it would not play well. so I sub the trick out with some thing bigger or some thing that will play better to a larger audience.

but no I would not perform the same show for the same price for a significantly larger group. for me anything under 150 people can be the same show but once you get over that bigger sound and bigger effects are needed in my opinion.

hope that answers your question of what I would do and how I justify it.

sam

Unless my service changes of a result of that difference in size, then it is essentially the same pricing. The better solution is to price on value, customization, service level, service type, etc.

I tend to set prices based on the customer type. The general expected size of the audience is taken into account, but not the only consideration. For example, I charge more for a one day festival than I do for a library for several reasons. Indoor vs outdoor, audience size, multiple booking potential, and personalization of show content. If the expected audience for either of these types of shows were to be drastically different than what I usually expect, I would change my price a bit, but being that the change in audience size was only one consideration in the first place, it would not be all that great of a change.

My show doesn't change in price whether it's 15 people or 150 people. As long as it is visible by everyone.
However, I have been asking myself the same question, should I raise prices after 80 people?

Same pricing, unless it's a large theater with a decent ticket cost. But for all private bookings the same. I have a rider requirement of an audience size of at least 80.

Does that mean you give a partial refund if there are considerably fewer people than expected, like if bad weather keeps the attendance down?

This isn't just for Charlie, but for everyone who says they raise prices for the SAME show if attendance is higher than expected. If you are changing anything about the show or the setup, how do you justify charging more just because more people show up - UNLESS of course the original agreement was based on ticket sales?

To me it's like the grocery store re-pricing the same loaf of bread, by putting a new sticker with a higher price over the existing sticker, just because it suddenly started snowing hard. I saw that happen two days ago.

For an at home party I tell them that my price doesn't change no matter how many people they have in their living room, or back yard. I generally increase my price when it is at a hall, but there are exceptions to every rule.

Hiya David!

I actually charge, "per person" in a sense. I talk about it at the end of one of my recent Magic Fridays:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahQkTBC9oXA&feature=youtu.be
(starting at 10:40)

My 2 cents,

jamie

Interesting question… Thanks!

Some Thoughts:
There are certainly a TON of considerations. As some have noted, many market forces at play here. – For me it’s rarely ever been about ‘audience numbers’ exclusively other that the obvious ticketed style events where I am the producer or JV in the profit sharing process.

I tend to price to the delivered/desired VALUE/RESULT based on mutually understanding.

There certainly ARE more than a small share of considerations:
- Actual COST & - Expenses to Produce the Desired Result:
Travel… Perishables/Consumables… Customization… Relationship… Team Member Support… Equipment Required… Logistics… Location… Access… Tech… Weather and other “Acts Of God”… and YES, ‘even’ Audience Size. (…as it likely will take different effort and result-support for a friendly group of 10 folks in a living room or hospitality suite than it would take 10,000 event arena… right?)

Yeah I know… DUH.

So the basic question, for me ‘personally’, (and in most cases) is that I do NOT charge exclusively & according to the size of the audience… but as noted, it’s rarely, if ever “ONLY” about the ‘size’ of the audience is it?

As I see it so far, that is the basic jist of what most are affirming so far as well.

Have I ever ‘worked-with’ (been flexible with) a producer/buyer who didn’t get or achieve the desired audience size he/she was expecting for what-ever various reason over the years? - - Well SURE, but that was clearly also NOT ‘exclusively’ as a result of the ‘size of the audience’, but rather just ONE of many and various mitigating circumstances.

…as to the “PRICE” question (though not overtly asked) I too am more of a ‘VALUE/RESULT’ guy than I am a 'Price Alone' Setter.

THANKS for asking… it sure has my mind going and I am enjoying reading the various thoughts shared... nice!

I am at Your Service and in HIS Service,
~ Deano in Reno
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I have never changed a price based on an audiences size.

This sums up what I was trying to convey? In addition, for example, if a central library calls and wants to hire me for a special event that is likely to attract 300 people, my quote is higher than when I perform for 40 or 50 people at a branch library show. So not all library shows are the same, but it is not a whole lot more. Likewise, if a librarian calls and says they want to try something different and are not sure if many will come due to the day, I work with them if I have the date open and will reduce my fee a bit (if it is a regular client) to allow them to stay within budget.

Great thoughts guys. Thank you very much.

David

It's might be more about the venue than the audience size

50 people can be in a private residence (or meeting room or restaurant banquet room), 200 you are in a facility of some sort, theater, country club, hall or what have you.

The show does change and additional equipment is required. 50 people in a private residence I might not have to use my PA, 200 in a facility I have to. Also 200 in a facility changes the show and I may need an assistant.

We are all our own businesses and must do what works best, keeps us profitable and healthy.

Here is my two cents worth.
thin
If a client books a caterer the first thing asked is how many people? Often times it will be the same food...but more people. If you take a group of people to the movie theatre you are charged per person. Still the same movie. If you are performing for 400 people instead of 100 do you have to bring different sound equipment. Are you going to be performing exactly at said performance time? what day or time of the year are you performing. Could be the same show but so many other things go into being on stage for set amount of time.

Here is an example
Last year I booked a show from a referral, the original show was about 5 minutes from my house. Last minute show, I wasn't busy and he had x amount he was willing to spend. I booked two more shows from him. Then the referral came in...was for a lazy Sunday afternoon house party for family. He wanted the same amount as his friend received even though I now had to drive 30 minutes each way. I showed up did the show for the same price...but now my cost to do the show became more. His company sells houses, he then called at Christmas wanted the same price but here comes the difference. House parties I show up do the show leave. Corporate show I am there long before the guests are there so I am not setting up in front of them. So instead of arriving a few minutes before the show is to start it is now a few hours. I quoted him $800 more than the show I did for the his family event. He was shocked...I said you are asking for prime time (Saturday night Christmas season).

I explained when you sell a house by the waterfront, the house is going to cost more than the same house in most other locations. He said will it be basically the same show? I said yes...but as mentioned I am there two hours before anyone else is there...I can't leave right after the show...and it is prime real estate. He understood. The tip on top of the extra $800 was nice as well.

If you have a product that people like, people will pay. You can also lose a show not just on being to much but also because you are to inexpensive. A large corporate client that spends 25k on an event (or often times much more than that) Does not want $100 entertainment. Hopefully the show you give them is it not the same show you gave at little at little Jimmy's bday party.

Remember if you get entertainment for $100 dollars and it was bad, it was $100 dollars wasted. If you pay $1000 dollars and every one talks about the show for weeks to come. It is $1000 dollars well spent. Understand what the client is paying for. It is never about the 30 or some minutes you stand in front of them.

Wow, RayAnderson, you brought up excellent points that really clarify pricing and the intricacies involved in setting a fee. I agree fully as variable prices do appear to be not only acceptable to a client but are an absolute must in this business!

Could someone explain to me how your value changes relative to the size of the bank account of the customer?

Ray bites at the edges of it and is dead on. IF your show is worth the $1,000 people say "wow he ONLY cost a grand!" If it is not worth the hundred bucks they think they were ripped off.

I think it is more about the value YOU CAN PROVIDE than the size of an audience or bank account.

Good discussion. Value is the key, at any level. If you can get the potential client to disclose their budget, you always have a better idea of what they perceive value as.
Another consideration is if you are being hired by the actual person that will be paying, or by a committee or employee. If a person is "assigned" to hire the entertainment and given a budget, they will normally not hire a performer that is lower than their budget. They have too much to lose. If the entertainer is substandard, they look bad for not using the entire budget. If they spend the entire budget on the other hand, and the performer is not polished, they can blame the budget. I have had people tell me no when I quoted $2500 fee for my 3 illusion show, because they had a budget of $4000 -- so they are looking for someone better!
That is the other thing you have to take into consideration. People that do not know you will judge your quality by your fee. What else do they have???
Good luck!

Good question. For me, it's not so much the size of the audience, but the kind of props, effects that I have to bring with me. How far I actually have to drive, and whether or not I need to purchase additional tricks, or equipment.

That's how I look at it, and it's very easy to justify it to the client.