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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Fellowship of Christian Magicians! » » Maybe it is a Canadian thing (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Neale Bacon
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Burnaby BC Canada
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I should say first I am primarily a ventriloquist. I see my friends in the United States doing shows at churches both as ministry shows and sometimes just an evening of clean comedy.

They also say that most of the churches understand a set fee.

I have not found that to be the case in Canada. A lot of churches I contact seem to expect you to perform for free or a "love offering". The last church I did where I accepted a love offering was at a large church whose love offering was $25. Apparently they didn't love me that much Smile

Maybe it is in my marketing. Maybe Canadians are just cheap LOL
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
Burnaby BC
Canada's Favourite Family Ventriloquist
www.baconandfriends.com
Danny Kazam
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When I did gospel magic I usually asked for a love offering, but the smallest I got was $200 for a half hour show. If I was to have got just $25 I think I would of approached someone in charge and asked them if they felt the love offering reflected their appreciation of you coming out and entertaining them. If the answer would of been yes, I would of responded by thanking them for under valuing your worth and time. It may sound mean, but it's the absolute truth. $25 should be viewed as an insult, and the Pastor or whoever was in charge should of felt a bit guilty giving you just $25.

The next time a church offers to pay you in a love offering, as for a hug up front first. Smile
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Donald Dunphy
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Victoria, BC, Canada
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As we've discussed in person Neale, I've done many church shows over the past few years here in BC (both on Vancouver Island and on the lower mainland) for my regular fee. I don't work for a love offering. I offer several show options, and they don't always book the least expensive show.

I think the opportunities are out there. There are several ways to pursue those opportunities, and some seem to work more effectively than others.

Part of this is not being frustrated about lost opportunities. Some people will book, some won't. Move on to the next opportunity when you get rejection. To quote Dale Carnegie, "Don't saw sawdust."

- Donald

P.S. Here's a link to a thread from the Good News area, where we discussed marketing and prices, at one time.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Neale Bacon
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Burnaby BC Canada
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Donald,

I have put together a new mailing piece for churches. As we discussed, I used your idea and put my fees out there as a way of pre qualifying the churches.

I also agree that all I can do is scatter the seeds and move on. I will leave the response in God's hands.
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
Burnaby BC
Canada's Favourite Family Ventriloquist
www.baconandfriends.com
Donald Dunphy
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Victoria, BC, Canada
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If you have any more questions, Neale, just give me a call.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
bowers
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Oakboro N.C.
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I usely get my regular fee also here in nc.
DougTait
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Sebring, FL
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Neale;

I live in Florida and we enjoy an influx of 'snowbird' Canadians who winter down here. The restaurant business flourishes with the population increase. My daughter is a waitress for te local Olive Garden. She asked me if I knew the difference between a Canadian and a canoe.

I said no, tell me. She replied, "A canoe tips". Smile
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men [and women] to do nothing."
Mike Maturen
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Michigan's Beautiful Sunrise Side
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Smile
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment
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AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life"

member: International Magician's Society
Neale Bacon
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Burnaby BC Canada
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Doug,

No offence to your daughter but that is a load of fertilizer. I and most Canadians I know are good tippers. Maybe it is just old people that are cheap?
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
Burnaby BC
Canada's Favourite Family Ventriloquist
www.baconandfriends.com
Danny Kazam
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I think here in Canada we only tip service that deserves it, and not because we are expected to. My wife just came back from Atlanta where the restaurants automatically add 18% to the total bill as a tip.(gratuity)Like I said, we tip here in Canada, not because we are forced too, or because we are expected to, but because we choose to do so when the service has been above what was expected.

If they don't pay waiters/waitresses enough money to live on in the USA, that's the employers fault, not the customers. Tips shouldn't be expected, but appreciated as a token of great service. When you are forced to pay the 18% extra regardless if the service was poor it's no longer a tip, but part of the hidden costs of having a meal in a retaurant.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Rodney Palmer
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Neale,

Here in the US unless you are a BIG Illusionist like Duane Laflin or someone of his caliber the Churches in Metro Detroit and the surrounding areas feel that your services should be FREE. That is the case in Michigan. But they will hire some really bad signing group and give them their FEE. In Michigan Entertainers such as Magicians, Clowns, Jugglers, Vents, etc. they want them to give of their services. That is why I know longer perform for the church groups. And the Churches are some of the worst people to perform for.

Rodney
"Creating Memories That Last A Lifetime"



In order to keep "MAGIC ALIVE" Please become a Mentor to a Young Person.
Danny Kazam
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I have never received anything less than $200 from a church, and that's as a love offering. The most I got was $750 for a 30 minute show as a love offering. I always found performing for church folks to be great and rewarding, the pay was a bonus.

For those who call their gospel magic show a ministry, as I have heard some call it, then no money should be expected if one has faith that God will provide for those who are doing His work. If you do church magic to supplement your income as a fulltime magician then have a fee. If they don't meet it, they don't get to see it. If it's a ministry, then all should see and hear regardless if they can afford it or not. If it's business poresent yourself as such.

I don't think I have ever run into a church that expected my service to be free. I guess it all depends on the church, and the people in it I suppose.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
DelMagic
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Quote:
On 2013-01-10 23:30, Danny Kazam wrote:
I think here in Canada we only tip service that deserves it, and not because we are expected to. My wife just came back from Atlanta where the restaurants automatically add 18% to the total bill as a tip.(gratuity)Like I said, we tip here in Canada, not because we are forced too, or because we are expected to, but because we choose to do so when the service has been above what was expected.

If they don't pay waiters/waitresses enough money to live on in the USA, that's the employers fault, not the customers. Tips shouldn't be expected, but appreciated as a token of great service. When you are forced to pay the 18% extra regardless if the service was poor it's no longer a tip, but part of the hidden costs of having a meal in a retaurant.


Danny,

You, as the customer, are going to pay for it one way or another. Yes, the culture and generally used business model in the U.S. is to pay waitstaff a very low hourly wage and expect that they can make a living wage through the tips they receive. The federal government exempts waitstaff from the national minimum wage which supports the continued use of the present system.

This low hourly wage reduces the restaurant's cost and allows them to charge you less for food and drink. I suspect many people prefer lower food prices and an assumption of tipping versus simply increasing the price of everything the restaurant offers. Either way, the customer will pay about the same for dining unless they simply refuse to tip or tip at a very low level.

One of the obvious problems is that a waiter/waitress who has a bad few hours during the week may end up with a reduction in take-home pay. Such workers are not likely to be brimming with extra money, so that loss can be keenly felt. Certainly it is an incentive to not falter, but accountants, cashiers, auto mechanics, attorneys, architects, etc. who have a few bad hours during the week most likely bring home the same paycheck regardless of a less-than-perfect work record. I happen to work in a chemical laboratory and if I bungle an experiment and have to repeat it, my salary is unaffected. It's nice to have that kind of job.

I've worked in restaurants, but not as a server and I was not in a "tipping expected" position. I did work closely with such people and my sister did it for many years. I think people familiar with the challenges of the servers can be more at ease with tipping even if the service was not exemplary.

Instances of true server problems are probably best dealt with first with the server directly and then with the manager if necessary. If your only response to dining problems is to cut or refuse tips, you aren't giving people a chance to take immediate action in areas that they may not even be aware of. Also, servers sometimes lose tips due to the poor performance of a cook or bartender and not due to their own failures.

It isn't an easy profession.
Danny Kazam
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Well, maybe the servers need to stand up to their employers, Low wages, so the food cost will stay low? This sounds rather like a poor excuse on how to run a business, and a stupid way to try and save a buck. Being a server doesn't take much skill. It's not a demanding job, not compared to thousands of other jobs that don't expect their customers to tip.

Here in Canada we tip, not because we have to do, but because we choose to when the service has been good. I never hear of servers complain they don't make enough money. Actually, I hear the starting wage for MacDonalds 14-16 dollars an hour.

Being a server is one of the more easier professions. Why anyone would want to make it a profession is beyond me. I too was once a waiter. The only stress is what you allow in. Other than that, being a waiter was pretty much an unskilled labour. It doesn't take much skill to take orders and serve food. I don't mean that offensively. Those who find that kind of work stressful or hard were just not cut out for that type of work. The hardest part of the job to me was standing on my feet all day.

I'm sorry but when you have to leave 18%, it's no longer a tip, it's part of the cost of the meal. Just disquised as a tip to make you think your meal was cheaper. Do they demand an 18% tip for chamber maids in the USA as well? It seems the only professions who demand tips are the unskilled jobs.

(When I say unskilled jobs, I am referring to jobs that no formal training or education is required)

I tip almost all the time when I go out to a restaurant, but it's never expected of me so it makes me feel good when I do. I also don't have to worry about not going out to eat because I can't afford the tip.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Neale Bacon
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Burnaby BC Canada
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Could we forget talking about tipping?
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
Burnaby BC
Canada's Favourite Family Ventriloquist
www.baconandfriends.com
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