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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2013-01-17 13:51, Woland wrote: Evidently you missed the update at the end of the article you linked to: Quote: Update: A Franken aide told TPM on Thursday that the senator has "consistently supported" a reinstatement of the assault weapons ban, nothing that he was unaware of the the president's exact gun control proposals because the event in Rochester was held at the same time as the White House's announcement. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Hi Bob,
LOL. That update wasn't on the article when I read it. With respect to requiring training for firearms ownership, I am in favor of universal firearms training; but for what other Constitutionally protected rights would you require training.? (I am reminded that in the Soviet Union, all high school students were required, as part of their physical education program, to learn how to break down and re-assemble a Kalashnikov rifle in the dark, and had training in marksmanship as well. If it is true that Driver's Education classes lessen the toll of automobile accidents, then I think we should certainly have mandatory firearms classes in school. With the option that conscientious objectors might do something else, instead.) |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On 2013-01-17 15:40, Woland wrote: I could make a facetious but pretty good case for free speech.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2013-01-17 15:40, Woland wrote: Well, I've already argued that driving itself is a constitutionally protected right. I think that teaching the Constitution should be mandatory in schools. So many quote it and so few know what's in it or what much of it means. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2013-01-17 15:42, LobowolfXXX wrote: I will happily write a concurring opinion! |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
There was a time when the Constitution was taught in our schools. But it was pushed out, I guess, by other things that appeared to be far more important.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2013-01-17 16:47, Woland wrote: It's interesting that immigrants who take the US citizenship test need to know more about our government and Constitution than most native born citizens do. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
And that is quite literally a shame.
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
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How many of them have the potential of killing someone if misused?
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Some would say that speech and religion can kill more people than a gun.
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
With respect to the dangers that may come with free speech, and whether it should be regulated, retired classics professor Victor Davis Hanson had this to say today:
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Just as semi-automatic weapons mark a technological sea change from the flintlock muskets of the Founders’ era, computer-simulated video dismemberment is a world away from the spirited political pamphleteering of the 18th century. If we talk of restricting the Second Amendment to protect us against modern technological breakthroughs, why not curtail the First Amendment as well? |
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Pecan_Creek Veteran user The Nation of TEXAS! 323 Posts |
What is the right wings obsession with "Natural Born Killers". It sure has been used a lot as an example lately.
It was put out in 1994. 19 years ago.Has it been that long since some of them have seen a movie? There has been a bunch of really nasty stuff in movies since then. Just curious. Edit: does anyone play grand theft auto amynore either? |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On 2013-01-18 14:31, Pecan_Creek wrote: I think with respect to NBK, it's not the degree of nastiness; it's the depiction of Mickey and Mallory as pop culture icons. That's still comparatively rare (vs. simply movies with a lot of gore, death, etc.) As modern society embraces things like reality TV more and more, and more people are "famous for being famous," NBK retains some sort of relevance that you wouldn't expect because of its age. I expect that some of today's spree killers would have just committed suicide 20 or 30 years ago, but now want to make sure they get their 15 minutes of fame on the way out. I also think that the people who complain about those movies don't watch a lot of them, so I also think you're partially right - not that they haven't seen a movie since 1994, but that they don't watch violent movies as a general rule, so for their illustrations, they default back to the ones that garnered a lot of media attention.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
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On 2013-01-17 07:10, Woland wrote: Actually, I changed my mind. Since in fact you wrote; Quote:
If we wait for absolute certainty in all situations we will be paralyzed. Then you must be one of those who would choose to shoot first and verify later. And don't give me some cute response about; "you don't know me, you can't speak for me." I'm examining your statement, and trying to put it in context of being in a potential shooting situation, if you thought you were being threatened, you would shoot without hesitation. I'm not asking for "absolute certainty in all situations" but if you're going to kill someone, you should at least make certain that person is in fact a threat!
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On 2013-01-18 22:23, ed rhodes wrote: Lots of people I respect are on all sorts of sides on this issue, so personally, I don't care what your position is...but which is it? Because this one post seems to read like you're one of those "shoot first and verify later" people, yourself.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
Where have I ever claimed we should "shoot first and verify later?"
I may have said it satirically; "Oh, well I guess it's OK to shoot without verifying then." But I'll have to put that down to the internet stripping intent from the cold written word. I don't think you can ever show I've ever made a legitimate argument for shooting with verification. I have always said that if you're going to take the responsibility for killing a person, you'd better make pretty certain that person is a threat. (Qualified with the fact that I don't think you have to actually be shot at first.)
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
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On 2013-01-18 11:41, Woland wrote: No. Speech and religion can influence people to pick up weapons and cause death and destruction. But no one's actually been killed by a stray prayer or inadvertent participle.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On 2013-01-19 05:53, ed rhodes wrote: You said you're "not asking for absolute certainty on all situations," which pretty much mirrored what Woland wrote: "If we wait for absolute certainty in all situations, we will be paralyzed," but then you drew a negative inference about him for saying that.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
That's a point. I do insist that someone be able to say he verified a gun. "Absolute certainty" in my mind would be that you have to be certain he a) has a gun, b) said gun is real, c) said gun is loaded and d) assailant honestly intends to shoot you. All of which would require he fire at you before you shoot back at him. This not being "Dick Tracy" (who never shot first but always shot last) I don't ask for that. I do ask that you be able to say to yourself; "There was a gun and I was in fear of my life" as opposed to; "I thought he had a gun but it turned out to be a (camera, wallet, nothing). Oh well, he still frightened me and so therefore deserved to die."
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
A reasonable belief is all you need in law, I think. It is no defence to say I just believed it. You have to explain the why of it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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