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ArturoZ.
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I've never had a problem with my thumb count DL being detected, I'm my opinion everything happens too fast for anyone to notice anything. In fact, I think it is more noticible when you count off two cards to get a break. But you are right Phil in the end it just comes down to whatever works for each individual. For me, this DL works like a charm.
Dirtytrix
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Quote:
On 2013-01-08 05:23, ArturoZ. wrote:
I've never had a problem with my thumb count DL being detected, I'm my opinion everything happens too fast for anyone to notice anything. In fact, I think it is more noticible when you count off two cards to get a break. But you are right Phil in the end it just comes down to whatever works for each individual. For me, this DL works like a charm.


Agreed, with speed it's undetectable, but I'm taking into consideration that someone learning their first DL might not be so dextrous, plus if you've got to execute a thumb count as a get ready quickly then that might mean that someone learning might feel under a little more pressure. The difference between spreading and the thumb count is that you can do the spread really slowly and take your time and justify the deliberate action, within reason. that's not to say that it doesn't also require plenty of practice in order to get it done in a timely fashion - I might be over-egging the pudding a little by implying you can take all day, because of course you can't. ;-)

Plus, it's nice for a relative novice to get their breaks well ahead of time, to settle and to milk the moment before executing the turn over, and I think that since the break created by a thumb count is at the front of the deck then it's not a position you'd be happy maintaining for an extended period of time. A break at the back is more conventional and does offer a bit more utility when transitioning to/from other controls.
Montana76
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Quote:
On 2013-01-08 05:23, ArturoZ. wrote:
I've never had a problem with my thumb count DL being detected, I'm my opinion everything happens too fast for anyone to notice anything. In fact, I think it is more noticible when you count off two cards to get a break. But you are right Phil in the end it just comes down to whatever works for each individual. For me, this DL works like a charm.


How quick is your thumb count and what advice would you give me to improve my speed? (of course practice practice practice.. but maybe something else?)
Montana76
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Quote:
Plus, it's nice for a relative novice to get their breaks well ahead of time, to settle and to milk the moment before executing the turn over, and I think that since the break created by a thumb count is at the front of the deck then it's not a position you'd be happy maintaining for an extended period of time. A break at the back is more conventional and does offer a bit more utility when transitioning to/from other controls.


That's a good point.. Transitioning between different breaks. That's maybe why you need more than one DL down.. Arghh! I'm going to be 100 years old before I'm "good enough"! Smile
Montana76
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On 2013-01-08 04:58, ArturoZ. wrote:
Montana, I hold the deck with my right hand and count off 2 cards with my thumb and push to the right, this creates a small arch then with my right index finger I go under the arch and push off the two cards while at the same time flipping them over. When done up to speed it looks very convincing. I use this DL because it requires no break or "set up". As I said ive been using this DL for about 5 years now so I don't remember the name or where I learned it!


This is infact excactly what I am doing now!
But what do you mean by pushing off? I simply lift them upp. Do you sort of slide them to your right with your right index as guide? And what way do you flip them?
TerryLam
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The following handling is my own study of DL, feel free to comment.

Both moves need to use a get ready break, the break should be attained according to the context of the routine.

There are two ways to "slide" the card to the right.
One is the vernon fake push off. It is natural looking and it can be followed by several different turnover to suit certain situation. Personally, I will use simple turnover, Ascanio weightless double or Gordon turnover after doing the vernon pushoff. If you can do different types of turnover, it means you don't have to use the "same move" twice in a single trick thus adding more deception to your magic.

The other one is use your right hand (thumb on top, first and middle finger below the card)to move the card to the right (the advantage of this is, the card can move more distance than a vernon push off)and use your left thumb to "touch" the card for half a second before turnover the card on to the deck. This is good to use when the card is face up, it gives the spectator more time to put the "card impression" into their mind before turn it over, thus, it gives the impression that the card can be freely moved without sticking to the deck and there is nothing to hide.
(It addresses the problem of strike type of DL, because strike type DL makes the card looks like it has to stick to the deck and cannot be causally moved like when you got just a single card at the top of the deck.)
ArturoZ.
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Montana, I meant to say "push up". I push the cards UP with my index once I have the arch. For me the thumb count is pretty fast but because I've put in the work. However, some advice I can give you, which helped me a lot when I was first learning it, is to buy yourself some time, talk to them while your thumb counting the cards. Do the thumb count when youre explaining something to them not when you're about to use the DL. After a while your thumb count will get faster and faster and eventually it will all flow very nicely. Well worth the practice. Looks deceptive and as I said I get compliments from magicians all the time.

Hope this helps,
Art
Steven Youell
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Quote:
On 2013-01-08 04:40, Montana76 wrote:
Steven Youell: For me that is a perfect DL. I've seen this on Gregory Wilson's Double Take, but my miss-rate on this is far to great. This would be the DL I would choose if I could get the hang of it. Is this what you use? I would love to get rid of my thumb-count..

It wasn't on Wilson's DVD-- I'm the only person Ron's allowed to teach it. PM me and we'll set something up!

sey
ArturoZ.
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Quote:
On 2013-01-08 05:55, Dirtytrix wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-01-08 05:23, ArturoZ. wrote:
I've never had a problem with my thumb count DL being detected, I'm my opinion everything happens too fast for anyone to notice anything. In fact, I think it is more noticible when you count off two cards to get a break. But you are right Phil in the end it just comes down to whatever works for each individual. For me, this DL works like a charm.


Agreed, with speed it's undetectable, but I'm taking into consideration that someone learning their first DL might not be so dextrous, plus if you've got to execute a thumb count as a get ready quickly then that might mean that someone learning might feel under a little more pressure. The difference between spreading and the thumb count is that you can do the spread really slowly and take your time and justify the deliberate action, within reason. that's not to say that it doesn't also require plenty of practice in order to get it done in a timely fashion - I might be over-egging the pudding a little by implying you can take all day, because of course you can't. ;-)

Plus, it's nice for a relative novice to get their breaks well ahead of time, to settle and to milk the moment before executing the turn over, and I think that since the break created by a thumb count is at the front of the deck then it's not a position you'd be happy maintaining for an extended period of time. A break at the back is more conventional and does offer a bit more utility when transitioning to/from other controls.


Youre right about having the thumb count break for a long period of time. I believe the thumb count DL is meant for everything to be done up to speed and not be siting there with the thumb break. What I do is I "milk the momet" before, then when I'm ready for it I time it so that the break isn't held for too long. It seems like a whole lot to do when you're writing it down but it really isn't.
Akal Singh
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Gorillas, chimpanzees, and Cards... Oh my!!

On the strike double (which Vernon, Lepzeig, and Dr. Dailey hated) and potential alternatives: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&forum=2

While I typically use Bro. John Hamman's no-get-ready, I was pretty impressed by this when I saw Josh Jay do it: http://www.youtube.com
/watch?v=Jko1Z3VvGOU

But, Michael Ammar quotes Paul Daniels on the Vernon Revelations DVDs as saying that "the best" DL does not exist: the one you should use depends on the context of the routine.

Lastly, during a Lecture at Magic Inc a couple years ago, John Bannon said that the DL is one of the hardest sleights (or THE hardest... I don't remember) to execute undetected. So, you're in good company, Mr. Montana.
Joe Momma
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Quote:
On 2013-01-04 22:13, Steven Youell wrote:
Would this work for you?

It's Ron Bauer's T.T.T. (Two card Turnover Technique)-- and it fooled Charlie Miller.
It's printed in his lecture notes.

sey


Very nice!
Steven Conner
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I replaced my DL with a second deal years ago. It's just so much cleaner.
"The New York Papers," Mark Twain once said,"have long known that no large question is ever really settled until I have been consulted; it is the way they feel about it, and they show it by always sending to me when they get uneasy. "
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