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Montana76
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Hi!
I've been trying for many months to get my DL down and what I have ended up with is something inbetween several techniques.. I'd like to have the name (I am guessing this isn't new) and you guys' opinion on the move.

What I do:
- Thumbcount and then push the DL to the right
- Catch the DL as a "push of DL"

I would like to do the push of DL straight away but I find my technique to be to unreliable...
Mb217
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I would call this "Not the best way to do it." Smile

Learn a good "Strike DL." It's easy enough to do and do very well with some practice. It's great because you can do it so easily/immediately behind shuffling the cards without detection.

Hereya go, out of the mouth of babes...You should be able to fish forever now as to this. Smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjzhVGGsY6o

Oh, and welcome to the Café. Smile
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

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Bandaloop
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Yes, learn a strike/push-off DL. The thumb count is not necessary. My personal favorites are Martin Nash's Knock-Out DL and Ron Bauer's TTT.
MagicofDesperado
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Sounds like youre trying to employ ideas from the snap double of Larry Jennings, which I first encountered watching Daryl Martinez.


Dave
Billy-one
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Ugh,

I use to like the strike DL when I was a kid....now, not so much.

BIlly
PapaG
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Sounds like something I've seen Fred Kaps use.
Steven Youell
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Would this work for you?

It's Ron Bauer's T.T.T. (Two card Turnover Technique)-- and it fooled Charlie Miller.
It's printed in his lecture notes.

sey
Steff
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So far, 3 no-get-ready DL have been cited here.

Whatever name your DL is, it is a bit sad to see that you give it up for a get-ready one because you did not achieved enough consistency. (*)

What do you call "unreliable" ? what is your "miss rate" ?

Try and get some advice about your DL (here on the café or with magicians you can meet locally).

As far as I am concerned, I am working on the push off DL too. I am not yet satisfied with the "consistency" either. It is about 90% ok, but I know (hope ?) the 10% (**) are just a question of time. My success rate increased a lot when I discovered that my index, third and fourth finger were a bit too high. These fingers are far more important for a good push off than I expected at first.

/Stephane

(*) Yet, I can understand that one gets discourage after several month of practice without the expected result.
(**) These 10 percents range from "a bit too misaligned for me" to rare unwanted TL.
MuscleMagic
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Quote:
On 2013-01-04 22:13, Steven Youell wrote:
Would this work for you?

It's Ron Bauer's T.T.T. (Two card Turnover Technique)-- and it fooled Charlie Miller.
It's printed in his lecture notes.

sey
thats great and not hard at all
Bandaloop
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Quote:
On 2013-01-07 05:32, Steff wrote:
So far, 3 no-get-ready DL have been cited here.

Whatever name your DL is, it is a bit sad to see that you give it up for a get-ready one because you did not achieved enough consistency. (*)

What do you call "unreliable" ? what is your "miss rate" ?

Try and get some advice about your DL (here on the café or with magicians you can meet locally).

As far as I am concerned, I am working on the push off DL too. I am not yet satisfied with the "consistency" either. It is about 90% ok, but I know (hope ?) the 10% (**) are just a question of time. My success rate increased a lot when I discovered that my index, third and fourth finger were a bit too high. These fingers are far more important for a good push off than I expected at first.

/Stephane

(*) Yet, I can understand that one gets discourage after several month of practice without the expected result.
(**) These 10 percents range from "a bit too misaligned for me" to rare unwanted TL.


Position of the fingers when doing a push-off is important to make sure only two (or however many) cards are pushed over. It takes a little messing with to find the right spot -- everyone is different.

I'm really taking a warming to Ron's TTT. People seem to be obsessed with turning over a double book-leaf style (which can be very useful if you're doing something like Nash's Drop) but I'm starting to move away from that to TTT.
Dick Oslund
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There is a great story about Ed Marlo and a gorilla (at the Lincoln Park Zoo in Chicago) that could do a GREAT "DL"!

Perhaps, if urged sufficiently, I might share the story, which I got from Jay Marshall, years ago.
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Cohiba
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I've never liked the Strike DL. It doesn't look like how a layman would do it, and it doesn't look like how a professional magician would do it. It looks like how an amateur magician would do it.
Ron Bauer's DL looks very good as an option. The Vernon Pushover looks like how most normal people turn over a card. I'd recommend this with a pinky count get-ready. And to me, the pinky count is a pretty simple move. I never understand when I see people saying it's such a tough move.

Over time, I'd recommend learning several good DL's. It's a move you use ALL THE TIME. You're thumb count version described above is not far off from another one I use often. As long as the thumb count is done under cover (which can be done gesturing while talking), you're set up for some nice options.
Magic-Scott
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Dick, I'd like to hear the story about Marlo and the gorilla....
Lance Pierce
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Quote:
On 2013-01-07 11:43, Dick Oslund wrote:
There is a great story about Ed Marlo and a gorilla (at the Lincoln Park Zoo in Chicago) that could do a GREAT "DL"!

Perhaps, if urged sufficiently, I might share the story, which I got from Jay Marshall, years ago.


See, I heard it involved a chimpanzee who could do second deals.
JasonEngland
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Lance,

Did Darwin Ortiz put you up to this?

Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
ArturoZ.
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Im not sure what the name is, I forgot where I learned this move but its a great DL once you master it. Ive been using this technique for about 5 years and other magicians are always complimenting and asking what move it is.
Montana76
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MB217: Thank you, but I find the strike DL to be unreliable. Is this what you use? And thanks for the warm welcome by the way:)

MagicoofDesperado: Yeah, it's a version of the snap double without the snap

Billy-one: What do you use now?

Steven Youell: For me that is a perfect DL. I've seen this on Gregory Wilson's Double Take, but my miss-rate on this is far to great. This would be the DL I would choose if I could get the hang of it. Is this what you use? I would love to get rid of my thumb-count..

Steff: My miss-rate is far to great to use anything else than the riffle-thumbcount DL when I am performing for example a simple transpo. I (almost) always chicken out and do the biddle-grip thumbriffle count DL - which I hate to do..

Cohiba: A pinky count get ready would be nice, but I've read that you have to "train" your pinky for a year to be able to do this. But again, I've read that it's all about technique. Could you point me to a tutorial or something in writing that describes the technique?

Dick Oslund: Let us have the story!!

ArturoZ: Can you describe the technique?


To sum it up: It looks like the general opinion is that the push of dl is the one to go for - but I am always pushing of three or more cards. Can someone point me to a GOOD tutorial please? I would really appreciate it:):)
Montana76
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Quote:
On 2013-01-07 22:17, JasonEngland wrote:
Lance,

Did Darwin Ortiz put you up to this?

Jason


Hi Jason!
As long as I have you here I would LOVE to have your opinion on the subject!
- What DL do you (most often) use?
- Is the thumbcount a give-away?
- Should I go for a DL without a get-ready?

and if you don't mind..
- What is (in your opinion) the DL to learn?

Take care:):)
ArturoZ.
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Montana, I hold the deck with my right hand and count off 2 cards with my thumb and push to the right, this creates a small arch then with my right index finger I go under the arch and push off the two cards while at the same time flipping them over. When done up to speed it looks very convincing. I use this DL because it requires no break or "set up". As I said ive been using this DL for about 5 years now so I don't remember the name or where I learned it!
Dirtytrix
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Quote:
On 2013-01-08 04:43, Montana76 wrote:

Hi Jason!
As long as I have you here I would LOVE to have your opinion on the subject!
- What DL do you (most often) use?
- Is the thumbcount a give-away?
- Should I go for a DL without a get-ready?

and if you don't mind..
- What is (in your opinion) the DL to learn?

Take care:):)


Here's my two pennies. Don't sweat about whether you need a 'get ready' before your DL, if you have a motive to do something and so long as it's perfectly natural then it's all fine. Not everyone will get a strike DL perfected without some serious practice time whilst some just pick it up straight away.

A really easy 'get ready' is simply spreading the cards as you explain that a particular card could be anywhere in the deck - the motivation is nothing more than you trying to show you're being honest and at the same time you're even offering a closer inspection which at worst is psycologically disguarded by your spectator as nothing more than a disingenuous gesture, but it's a great cover for the move which serves multiple purposes - it's allows for patter, a joke, the implied openess and the accompaning psycological effect, as well as facilitating your 'get ready'. Simply catch a break as you close the spread. You can blatantly and as slowly as you like push off however many cards at the lead end of your spread, you don't even need to spread the entire deck (even just the top half-dozen at the most) as it's nothing more than a natural gesture and part of your patter. I'll stop there considering we're in an open forum.

IMO the thumb count is easily detectable because if you're holding the deck in mechanics grip then it's happening right at front of the deck and under the nose of whoever feels like burning your hands. Only riffling up the back of the deck is marginally less revealing.

I suppose at the end of the day it's really down to whatever works and is easy for you, just so long as it's a completely natural action which can be justified in some way then it's going to go under the radar.

Phil
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