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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts |
Cirrus,
You've basically said the following: 1. Almost all card magic is about 'putting one over', control, forces, and a power struggle with the spectators. 2. This is a darned shame. 3. Therefore, all card guys who are engaged in such activities should quit immediately. My view? 1. I agree, to a point. Some guys are doing card magic that is about a power struggle with the spectators. But in all fairness, I've seen quite a few magicians who do wonderful card magic. There's conflict, but no real power struggle. 2. It's too bad that the world has quite a few bad magicians, but nobody is dying or going hungry because of it. 3. I don't have the right to tell other card guys what to do. There is only one magician that I can control: ME. So, with that said, what are you going to actually DO? I won't presume to tell you. It's all up to you.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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Count Lustig Elite user 456 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-01-16 18:39, cirrus wrote: I understand. If the only part of Europe we Americans saw were you, we’d have a negative impression of Europe. (By the way, have you noticed that several of the people responding critically to you in this thread are from countries other than the U.S.?) |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-01-16 18:39, cirrus wrote: I, for one, haven't noticed anyone calling anyone a troll because the latter wouldn't change his opinion. What I did notice is this: Quote:
On 2013-01-16 06:51, MagicJuggler wrote: Matthew said that you were acting as a troll (not that you were a troll: subtle difference) not because you wouldn't change your opinion, but because you started the discussion with "a purposefully inflamatory statement." Maybe you should have added: Europe: Take quotes out of context and change their intended meaning to bolster your argument when it won't stand on its own merits. |
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rklew64 Inner circle 1265 Posts |
I believe it is safe to say the world of card magic will not miss you nor your opinion of card magic. I think that is fair to say given your disdain. In my opinion, you don't get it. Sad your missing out on the party.
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Justin W. Loyal user Kansas 237 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-01-15 08:38, cirrus wrote: Quote:
America: He disagrees, let's discuss until he agrees, otherwise... call him a troll. |
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Magic Pierre Loyal user 212 Posts |
It's always kinda funny when someone says "I know what I am going to say is going to upset people, but I don't care", and then feel put upon or put out when people do get upset, or when people point out that what they have said is logically inconsistent, or only a matter of opinion and not of fact. It is also entertaining to watch them descend to the level of ad hominem attack ("Your response is so typically American, and therefore ignorant and childish, as opposed to our European response, which is enlightened and mature"). Such people are always revealed for what they are when they can't respond to logical criticism of their arguments directly. Perhaps it is time to acknowledge that cirrus doesn't like cards and move on. Oh, well...
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MagicMason Loyal user 300 Posts |
Interesting thread - Cirrus, I am sure you are a nice guy. But from your opening remarks... you "controlled" and "forced" cardmen to respond to you and their responses should not be surprising. Voila!
My question is... when you wrote your thoughts, were you thinking of the best interest of cardmen and cardwomen? sincerely Tom Vienna, Austria |
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slowdini Regular user 122 Posts |
Blah blah blah- really guys??!!??
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Alan Munro Inner circle Kentwood, Michigan, USA 5952 Posts |
After you see a really entertaining magician entertain you with card magic, you'll start to find more performers who are also highly entertaining. When I was a kid, I thought that I hated card magic. It was just that I hated boring performances...and I have seen many.
As to the comments about performing for alpha males, a true alpha doesn't get insecure when being entertained by a capable magician. However, too many try to pose as an alpha, displaying their insecurities for all to see. These are the ones who insist on being an a**h*l*, despite the fact that everyone else wants him to shut up so that they can be entertained. |
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts |
Personally, I know why I am bored with threads by Cirrus, the man who 'knows' tarot. As for the American/European thing? Speaking as a European, the guy's an idiot.
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panlives Inner circle 2087 Posts |
I just finished watching a great documentary called, "How Bruce Lee Changed the World."
It reminded me that in Martial Arts, it is customary to refer to your "opponent." Sadly, I too have been witness to the occasional magician who knowingly or not takes this stance. The topic has merit...
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time." "The dog did nothing in the night-time." "That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes. |
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cybob New user 60 Posts |
I was recently re-reading Closely Guarded Secrets.
Mr. Close wrote: “…there is nothing inherently good or bad about cards. They are simply props. More specifically, a deck of cards is the vehicle through which you will express your worldview.” |
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Billy-one Inner circle IOWA 1028 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-01-21 17:54, cybob wrote: I have yet to see a performer express his "worldview" with a deck of cards....maybe I misunderstand the term worldview? Billy I just like to do tricks with cards |
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DelMagic Special user 719 Posts |
I would imagine Mr. Close didn't mean a comprehensive worldview, but a subset of it.
If you think cards are best considered as something with which you can do tricks for some light entertainment, that is part of your worldview. Others view their magic more deeply, studying relational aspects and lasting impact and they present their magic with those ideas in mind. Others have a broader story to tell and use magic as illustration aids or memory joggers. There is a broad spectrum of performance styles based not only on the magician's personality and skill, but also on the magician's impetus for performing. |
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts |
There are a wide variety of card magic styles, and a wide variety of world views.
Example 1: Life, Death, and Other Card Tricks The card magic creations of my dear friend Robert Neale, an accomplished philosophical thinker, practitioner of origami, and all-around good guy. Example 2: "Im'a gonna show you someting; you-a not gonna believe." Quintino Marucci aka Tony Slydini
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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john serifino New user 5 Posts |
[quote]On 2013-01-15 02:04, Erdnase27 wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-01-15 01:57, asherfox wrote: I have been around magic for a very long time, 40+ years, Now I am not a hard core card guy but a do a bit of card magic. I must agree that card skill doesn't mean good magic. I have seen lots of card guys that have lots of skill that can not entertain. Magic is about entertaing. I was watching a group guys that just sat in a group doing card flourishes for each other. One of the magicians with ask them to do a trick and that caught them off gaurd. As far as sucker effects in magic I get tired of all the bashing about how doing such effects may hurt the feelings of the audiance. This is nonsence, I will use a sucker effect once in a while and I have had many people tell me haw much they enjoyed being fooled with them. I thinkmany magician have forgot what it was like to watch a magic show when they did not know what was being done. Bashing sucker effects is just more P C non sence |
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Cameron Francis V.I.P. 7025 Posts |
Pretentious blathering ignorant BS.
Funny, you talk about how magicians are all about feeling superior and how you're against that... yet you post something where you yourself claim to be superior! Otherwise, why post this drivel? Pure irony. Most magicians I know do magic to entertain people and make them feel good. That's why I do magic. I'm not trying to be superior or make people feel small. I have no idea why you started this thread or what magicians you are hanging around but I feel sorry for you. You must know some horrible magicians.
MOMENT'S NOTICE LIVE 3 - Six impromptu card tricks! Out now! http://cameronfrancismagic.com/moments-notice-live-3.html
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Erdnase27 Inner circle 2505 Posts |
Yet I still don't agree with the notion that magic is "all about entertainment"...
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Steve Friedberg Inner circle 1402 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-01-15 00:58, cirrus wrote: Dustin Hoffman tells the story about talking with Sir Laurence Olivier about his motivation for acting. Hoffman says he asked Olivier, "Larry, why do you act?" In reply, Olivier grabbed Hoffman by his shirt collar, pulled Hoffman's face next to his, and said, "LOOK at me! LOOK at me! LOOK at me!" So, to answer your question...in some cases, yes.
Cheers,
Steve "A trick does not fool the eyes, but fools the brain." -- John Mulholland |
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Steve Friedberg Inner circle 1402 Posts |
Cirrus,
You've told us what you don't like. What kind of magic *do* you like? And why? And how is the presentation of that kind of magic different, in your opinion, from well-crafted, well-performed card magic? (I would ask for a video clip of you performing the kind of magic you believe works best, but I think we *all* know where that would end up. So I won't.)
Cheers,
Steve "A trick does not fool the eyes, but fools the brain." -- John Mulholland |
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