On 2013-01-30 01:06, granterg wrote:
Magic is an amazing thing, but unfortunately it lets a person down in the adult stage of one's life.

That is precisely when mentalism can step in and take magic's place.

granterg

PS: The question then becomes: If magic, in a sense, ultimately fails us, why do magicians still hang on?

On 2013-01-30 13:21, doriancaudal wrote:

Quote:

Both mentalism and mental magic are forms of entertainment. Neither is more inherently entertaining than the other.

Pure mentalism looks exactly the same as what I would call “pure magic” (best typified by the performances of David Blaine,) that are very direct and seemingly impromptu. They tend to defy logical explanation and actually appear to real magic. In both cases, many members of the audience may believe they just saw “the real thing.”

Mental magic and most theatrical magic are also indistinguishable. Both are obviously illusions or special effects, which are visually or intellectually interesting, but nonetheless are generally perceived to be tricks by even marginally intelligent audiences.

HOW TO TELL IF YOU ARE DOING MENTAL MAGIC OR MENTALISM:

Pay attention to what audiences generally ask after seeing you perform. Do they ask things like:

“How is that done?’
“Can you show me another trick?”
“My five year old has a birthday coming up, what do you charge?”

If your answer is “yes,” you are doing mental magic, which is best described as “effects with a mind reading theme, which are, nonetheless, perceived to be magic tricks.” They do not create the illusion of the “real thing.”

If, on the other hand, you have succeeded in creating the illusion of mentalism, you will receive responses like these:

“Did you learn that somewhere, or is it something you were born with?”
“How did you know that?” (as opposed to “How did you DO that?”)
“Get away from me, man. Don’t be messin’ with my head!”

Mentalism and mental magic, then, are different forms of entertainment. Both elicit different perceptions and reactions from an audience. The mentalist, therefore, has an ethical responsibility unknown to the conjuror or mental magician, for he is in a position to make people believe in, and rely upon, to their detriment, his alleged powers.

I think this is not so simple. It's not a black OR white thing, there are many several nuances to add to it...

On 2013-01-30 12:50, Moderncelt wrote:
Another difference I feel goes with the Mentalism/Mental Magic dichotomy is the level of suspense or expectation of success? Not sure that's the right word, let me explain. With Mental magic, there is always going to be success, in fact an EXPECTATION of success. You always find the paycheck, you always know the word from the dictionary, you always predict the number with unerring accuracy, you always bend the spoon into curls tighter than a pigs tail. With mentalism there is the possibility of failure. An audience will watch a key for over a minute, just waiting...willing it to bend...just a little bit. They are willing to accept as a success when you say "I feel like what you chose was something...familiar, something you have in your own home...like a piece of furniture...You do have this don't you? Yes, in fact you're picturing it right now aren't you?...it's not a tv, it's more comfortable...is it chair..maybe a recliner? What? A SOFA! oh so close."

Mentalism is the case where less can be more.

On 2013-01-31 01:31, C.J. wrote:

I really hate the overplayed line of, "This is an experiment, it might not work". That line, and the message it gives, can be delivered in a way that builds suspense and draws the audience in. But I've seen so many videos of people throwing this out casually in the wrong context as they start a mind reading demonstration, and then fail to return to resolve it later in the routine, and that aggravates me. Doing it wrong reduces your hard work to a mere, "Hey spectator, want to see a mild curiosity?" And I believe most people do it wrong.

On 2013-01-31 12:22, Bill Cushman wrote:
Regardting Annemman's oft quoted comment about mentalism being a more grown up type of magic:

"It's because it allows you, if you present it properly, to create the same sense of wonder and "What if?" for adults that a child experiences when he sees his first magic show." Bob Cassidy

What a great take on this classic premise. If you've ever stated it like this, Bob, I must have missed it. It completely shifts the perspective of what Annemman was stating. Put this way, it defuses the typical arguments and sense many magicians have that mentalists are being elitist.

Your comment about Blaine captures this essence as well. It is about BEING PERCEIVED AS REAL, not whether you are performing magic or mentalism. Bob, would you agree that watching a Blaine performance of a magic effect can give an adult that same experience a child has at his first magic show?

On 2013-01-31 08:03, Russell Davidson wrote:
I've performed mental magic & had people think there was some kind of psychic thing going on. So, it depends on who your audience is & what their beliefs might be to start with. Some may think your gifted. others will know it's a trick.

There is no good reason why magic & mentalism can't mix. That is a typical elitist mentalist POV. By & large, that's the impression you get here. That magic is dumb & mentalism is so much better & grown up. Hell, some of you even like to think you are psychic!

On 2013-01-31 09:02, funsway wrote:
There will be four people providing entertainment: Hugo - the world's foremost juggler, Anna the Sand-Painter, the current world champion stage magician -- and YOU

On 2013-01-31 08:03, Russell Davidson wrote:
I've performed mental magic & had people think there was some kind of psychic thing going on. So, it depends on who your audience is & what their beliefs might be to start with. Some may think your gifted. others will know it's a trick.

There is no good reason why magic & mentalism can't mix. That is a typical elitist mentalist POV. By & large, that's the impression you get here. That magic is dumb & mentalism is so much better & grown up. Hell, some of you even like to think you are psychic!

On 2013-01-31 16:29, Smoking Camel wrote:
How about... A mentalists demonstration can be done outside of the context of entertainment and still have a congruent meaning. Mental magic cannot.

On 2013-01-31 17:18, mastermindreader wrote:

Quote:

On 2013-01-31 16:29, Smoking Camel wrote:
How about... A mentalists demonstration can be done outside of the context of entertainment and still have a congruent meaning. Mental magic cannot.

I see your point and agree with the general sentiment. The problem, though, is once you take mentalism out of the context of entertainment, it is no longer mentalism.

Good thoughts,

Bob