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JanForster Inner circle Germany ... when not traveling... 4192 Posts |
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On 2013-01-30 01:06, granterg wrote: Wonderful, you read my mind... Jan
Jan Forster
www.janforster.de |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2013-01-30 13:21, doriancaudal wrote: Of course. I cover all of that in the REST of the book. |
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Crowslide New user 50 Posts |
To elaborate on the audience perception idea...(and I'm kinda typing out loud)
I am a middle school teacher. Often there is a sense of discrepancy between what is taught and what is learned. It is not uncommon in education to hear a teacher lament "I taught them how to do fractions and they still don't get it!" The effective teacher knows they have not taught unless the students have learned. And...likewise.. a student will not say they were taught a whole lot about a subject unless they feel and can identify their learning. So... Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 2013-01-30 04:02, funsway wrote: Thus, I heartily disagree with the concept that audience reaction defines what you do. Who is in charge here? Who are you inside? In any art the performer communicates something of self – what did you communicate? Why do you desire to “entertain people” anyway? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As a teacher I may be in charge...come to terms with my learning pedagogy..and I may feel like I'm teaching..but how do I measure that? As a magician I may have created a mentalism routine..defined my character..made conscious decisions about how I want my “abilities” to be perceived..I may feel like I'm a mentalist in that moment.. but how do I measure that? How do I know that I did it? I look to the audience. Just some thoughts.. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Crowslide-
Exactly! |
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Olympic Adam Inner circle 1259 Posts |
D*rr*n Br*wn performed blockhead in his stage show - it's real
Pete Firman performed it after pulling a bouquet of flowers from his sleeve - it's a trick - even though I'm pretty sure there was blood on the nail Audience reaction tells all
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
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C.J. Inner circle There's a lotta rambling in my 2366 Posts |
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On 2013-01-30 12:50, Moderncelt wrote: Ah... fun one here. I agree with your intention, but I want to say that in terms of entertainment value and the audience's emotional investment in your work (or "performance" if you want to be crass!), I really hate the overplayed line of, "This is an experiment, it might not work". That line, and the message it gives, can be delivered in a way that builds suspense and draws the audience in. But I've seen so many videos of people throwing this out casually in the wrong context as they start a mind reading demonstration, and then fail to return to resolve it later in the routine, and that aggravates me. Doing it wrong reduces your hard work to a mere, "Hey spectator, want to see a mild curiosity?" And I believe most people do it wrong.
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur Be fondly remembered. |
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Russell Davidson Inner circle Hampshire, England 1108 Posts |
I've performed mental magic & had people think there was some kind of psychic thing going on. So, it depends on who your audience is & what their beliefs might be to start with. Some may think your gifted. others will know it's a trick.
There is no good reason why magic & mentalism can't mix. That is a typical elitist mentalist POV. By & large, that's the impression you get here. That magic is dumb & mentalism is so much better & grown up. Hell, some of you even like to think you are psychic! |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9987 Posts |
A little challenge or query -- in fun, but on theme I hope ...
You have been invited at the last moment to participate in a huge charity fundraiser. You are offered $1,000,000 donation to your favorite charity, plus a matching amount if you are acclaimed "best of show" by the mixed audience of wealthy patrons, orphan children and public notables. There will be four people providing entertainment: Hugo - the world's foremost juggler, Anna the Sand-Painter, the current world champion stage magician -- and YOU ( often compared with Bob Cassidy) You will be allowed to decide the order of performance. Where do you sandwich yourself in the line-up -- and why? (Your charity gets the mIllion regardless-- but you would like to "win") How would you bill yourself in the program and what do you plan to perform?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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eSamuels Inner circle 3085 Posts |
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On 2013-01-31 01:31, C.J. wrote: There's only one person who has ever delivered that kind of line with conviction: "Put on your seat belt. I want to try something. I saw it once in a cartoon and I'm pretty sure I can do it." - Steven Wright |
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Mike Ince Inner circle 2041 Posts |
I know a guy who's been trying to present a mental magic show, but it's comprised mostly of strong, personal mentalism effects. He performs things like 4DT and a Q&A (really an audience reading without Q's). Though he doesn't claim real powers many people think he has them despite his (dis)claimer. He's been performing mentalism instead of the mental magic he intended. At his show I overheard comments like, "well, I know he says he's some kind of magician but he MUST have some kind of gift." If the perception of audience determines his persona, to at least some of them he's a mindreader or maybe some kind of devil.
"My five year old has a birthday coming up. What do you charge?" I'm so glad mentalism released me from that dilemma. What a lovely benefit with gravy on top. It always bothered me when the question would come after doing magic shows at banquets for grownups and I envied mentalists for their kidless, almost propless shows. Respect to the men who have the patience to work with little people. Never again. DO YOU HEAR THAT, EVIL BIRTHDAY CHILD? NEVER! HAHAHAHAHA! (Fast forward ten years to a scene of me doing a once-a-year show for my future kid and his unruly little friends. Never say never.)
The secret of deception is in making the truth seem ridiculous.
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Bill Cushman Inner circle Florida 2876 Posts |
Regardting Annemman's oft quoted comment about mentalism being a more grown up type of magic:
"It's because it allows you, if you present it properly, to create the same sense of wonder and "What if?" for adults that a child experiences when he sees his first magic show." Bob Cassidy What a great take on this classic premise. If you've ever stated it like this, Bob, I must have missed it. It completely shifts the perspective of what Annemman was stating. Put this way, it defuses the typical arguments and sense many magicians have that mentalists are being elitist. Your comment about Blaine captures this essence as well. It is about BEING PERCEIVED AS REAL, not whether you are performing magic or mentalism. Bob, would you agree that watching a Blaine performance of a magic effect can give an adult that same experience a child has at his first magic show? |
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Jim Sparx Inner circle Far Out, Texas 1144 Posts |
I do not remember if there was an issue (dichotomy) between mentalism and magic when I was reading Jinx in the early 50s. The comment about mentalism being a grown up type of magic is the difference between magic being visual and mentalism being magic you have to 'think' about, therefore, mental. (That is how I would read that)
As far as the Cassidy statement, a child sees and understands the world visually, while an adult tries to understand the world logically (some adults). If what an adult is seeing does not compute 'logically' than there would be a sense of wonder. (I note that as I approach 75 years old I am regressing in seeing the world as childish wonderment, and bewildered about human ignorance and stupidity)
Et tu, Spartacus?
https://fineartamerica.com/profiles/chispadeelpaso.html |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2013-01-31 12:22, Bill Cushman wrote: Yes. Of course. Best- Bob |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2013-01-31 08:03, Russell Davidson wrote: If you got that impression from ANYTHING I've written here, I'd suggest you reread it. |
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C.J. Inner circle There's a lotta rambling in my 2366 Posts |
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On 2013-01-31 09:02, funsway wrote: I would lose to the sand painter. They're too cool. Not fair. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsEiLGBk3Bo
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur Be fondly remembered. |
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innercirclewannabe Inner circle Ireland 1597 Posts |
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On 2013-01-31 08:03, Russell Davidson wrote: Don't know what that rant was all about? Go ahead and mix your Magic with your Mentalism, if you can make it believable, well then, hats off to you!
Tá sé ach cleas má dhéanann tú sé cuma mhaith ar cheann.
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Smoking Camel Inner circle UK 1039 Posts |
How about... A mentalists demonstration can be done outside of the context of entertainment and still have a congruent meaning. Mental magic cannot.
I no longer smoke camel cigarettes.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2013-01-31 16:29, Smoking Camel wrote: I see your point and agree with the general sentiment. The problem, though, is once you take mentalism out of the context of entertainment, it is no longer mentalism. Good thoughts, Bob |
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Smoking Camel Inner circle UK 1039 Posts |
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On 2013-01-31 17:18, mastermindreader wrote: Indeed, my point is that it can become something else and still be congruent with its new label.... But yes it's no longer mentalist.
I no longer smoke camel cigarettes.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9987 Posts |
OK, Bob and Camel -- you sit down with business owner for a lengthy evaluation to determine the exact nature of the problems to be addressed. Ten minutes in you casually write something on a Post-it Note, fold and place under a weight on his desk. More than an hour later you point to the slip (never near you again). He reads, "At 7:42AM on March 21st you will make the statement that you must fire your son." He had, of course, done exactly that several minutes before!
Now, this "feels like" mentalism - having made a prediction that came true. It can't be "mental magic" as no trick is involved -- and he knows it. Such an effect would not play well on stage "for entertainment." It can be done as described but NEVER for entertainment. The context is all wrong. But, what is it? Here the "client" is helped profoundly by realizing that future outcomes are not a matter of chance or "magic" but of changing past perceptions and acting in congruent ways. If he tells anyone of the experience they might well consider you to be a mentalist or possessing "other than normal" abilities. Mentalist? Magician? Wizard?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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