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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
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On 2013-02-04 12:40, Ray Haining wrote: Now Ray, I pretty much agree with that mostly. One is simple, one is not, both are good. One, a tremendous progress of the other, while the other was a great beginning for all the rest. Both would fall into the realm of "to each his own," no matter which one you like as people's mileage may vary as you see here, and that's AOK. Hey, and again with all due respect here, ain't nothing wrong with a Mustang, or somethin' like that.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts |
Marion, have you seen the Hayashi routine on the 4F DVD? It is simpler than the one above, but good, and would work for laymen as well as magicians, whereas a lot of the routine above, I feel, is for magicians. Not to say there is no good stuff there, even the stuff geared toward magicians. But when a layman sees a coin go invisibly from under one card to under another, if done right, they are amazed that the coin traveled there, not that they didn't see the pick-up move, like a magician would react.
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John T Cox Veteran user 385 Posts |
I liked seeing all the variations myself but it was a lot like doing ambitious card with twenty seven phases. The first backfire and a couple of other variations would be more than enough in my opinion.
The real magic is family!
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
JT, you're right and I did mention Daryl's ACR vid where he does those "27" phases, again I think to just show the possibilities. People should use of it what they will because that's pretty much what they do anyway. Anyone thinking, well, "I guess I just gotta do all 27 phases" (of Daryl or Hayashi) because that's what they see, well, God bless 'em.
And Ray, good points again. And I have seen Hayashi's 4F DVD where he does a much more shortened version, still very nice stuff -- The is very good. And even with that, you'll find folks that still prefer the old farm. No problem, just that for some reason they like to resist the natural evolution of the original effect. There have been some amazing creations from the simpler effect done now long ago. To me, that's some amazing stuff Hayashi did in several of the phases. I just can't see anyone saying, "Hey, I would never want to be able to do that." Sorta like being happy with just a small fire for light and not adding a few more sticks for some better warmth as well. Still, to each his own as to it, with all due respect and all rights reserved.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts |
Ah, the old farm--sitting back on the front porch, smoking my corncob pipe, listening to the birds chirping in the trees in the yard, watching my 12-year-old nephew practicing Matrix from a photocopy of a typewritten manuscript by Al Schneider. Those were the days!
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Hayashi has teriffic chops and love his ideas ......However I have never ever seen a better routine than Armando lucero's
Thank you Al for creating this wonderful effect vinny |
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mch64961 New user TN 82 Posts |
That guy is awesome, but that routine was entirely too long, I was ready for him to finish on the 3rd phase.
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msmagic1 New user 51 Posts |
Excellent
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Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts |
And Armando Lucero's routine is unavailable, even to watch, to us poor, pedestrian magicians who are not on the "inside," correct?
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Andy Tauber Regular user Vancouver WA 106 Posts |
Though I found it a little long, I enjoyed the presentation.
Andy Tauber
www.magicalmischief.org Twitter: @AMagicMischief “Children see magic because they look for it.” I used to think I wasn't a morning person, but things never got better after lunch! |
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
Agree that it was overkill - what is basically an entertaining, well delivered plot for laymen becomes just a tad boring and 'magicians magic' personified.
Also, and this is my major gripe with so many coin magicians, the totally unnatural positioning of the hands (particularly the fingers) getting a coin into classic palm, is truly woeful.
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Here is my one handed matrix I call CRIMPTRIX
it is a little differernt using my crimping controls... no classic palm used vinny http://youtu.be/7o9K53TjMaA\ IT IS NOT BETTER JUST DIFFERENT |
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Octopus Sun Special user Wiggle Wiggle 586 Posts |
I used to think that this was a decent routine a year ago, but dude is stiff as a board, and very unnatural with his moves, and hand positions. No one hold their hands like that in reality. You can see him pick up, lap, transfer, drop, etc.
After 2yrs of studying peoples hand positions and they way they use them while out in public may have made me to critical, but nothing flows with this routine imho. It's to repetitious, and monotonous. 7 minutes is really beyond the majority of the mass mind's(specs) ability to be able to focus on anything. |
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David Neighbors V.I.P. 4910 Posts |
Yea that goes with when I go out and Lecture The ??? I get the most is! " How do you do a classic palm ??? ! "
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wsduncan Inner circle Seattle, WA 3619 Posts |
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On 2013-02-03 07:42, Mb217 wrote: Disagree. What you see here is the difference between magic and manipulation. With Al's trick there is nothing funny going on. |
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Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts |
Nice, Vinny. I'm not sure what you're doing there. How are the angles on that?
Hayashi's routine, Matrix Trilogy, is a well-structured routine with a beginning, middle and end. It's a good routine. The routine above seems more like him trying out and showing different possibilities, mostly backfires, to wow magicians. That doesn't mean there aren't good things there. I agree that Al Schneider's original Matrix looks the most magical. Evolution does not always mean progress. |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Hi ray there are no angle promlems... my routine is just a little different without using the classic palm .
if interested in this technique send me your e mail address ill send you a teaching demo. vinny |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
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On 2013-02-10 10:55, Ray Haining wrote: I pretty much agree with you here, Ray. But I happen to think that in most cases, evolution does mean some sort of progress on a thing, more so than not, but people also don't have to take the escalator if they prefer stairs. It comes down to choice really. In the way that a lot of folks here prefer the simplicity of the original Matrix, which is fine, the presentations by Hayashi surely show more possibilities that can accentuate the basic routine. I'm not looking for any such consensus, just giving my opinion but to me what Hayashi is doing in part or in whole looks the most magical as to Matrix. Thought the same thing as to Ponta the Smith's take on Matrix as well on his Sick DVD and said so. There's more in these routines because simply, there's just more now of ability, technique and creativity in this stuff, not to mention many more people taking part in it beyond just the more recognized leadership. Honestly, heck, I would hope everything is somewhat improved upon or better 25-50yrs later, even Matrix. Would be sorta a shame if it's not somewhat. Now, again, you don't have to eat everything on the plate Hayashi serves up here. On the contrary, eat what you like of it or not at all. Again, I can't see anyone looking at Hayashi's work and saying, "I wouldn't want to learn any of that." It's sorta like Gene Fulmer not wanting to learn some of Sugar Ray Robinson's slick moves behind some of his exceptional hand & foot speed in the ring, or something like that. Anyway, I think Hayashi's presentation certainly shows progress well enough but sometimes folks would rather continue to walk a ways, as everyone's mileage may vary. Nothing wrong with that. In the meantime, you can't go wrong with anything from Vinny, always great stuff.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
There's room for tinkering and experimenting with practically everything, and coin assemblies certainly do lend themselves well as such. I also believe that the originally Matrix is extremely magical because of it's relative simplicity in handling, which provides a very magical experience for the audience.
Still, the most magical I have ever seen is David Williamson's Floating Assembly. |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
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On 2013-02-04 00:04, J-Mac wrote: Jim I agree with you ... and the most magical version remains, in my eyes, Armando Lucero's version Now this is admittedly very brilliant on all acounts and far better than most of the versions I'm used ot watch.
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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