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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-02-19 16:49, landmark wrote: I imagine there's a decent smattering of issues we agree on, but they come up less often than the ones we disagree on.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Why do you want to get into word parsing? God this is stupid.
Rockwall will mention a program and you and Bob will say "gotcha a republican said this about it". This is SOOOOOOO stupid and while the government keeps sending the same cars for the dogs to chase we lose more and more. How pathetic.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Danny, it helps to know in just what manner the game is rigged. Otherwise you get scammed again. Silly betting on a card that isn't even in the deck.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
I would like to know what we have left to lose.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-02-19 18:31, landmark wrote: OK, you're starting to confuse me. You mention automatic card check and then say he may no attempt at single payer. Which one are you talking about? But as you know, he's always been a strong supporter of both. In fact, as far as single payer goes, he is trying to get to it in exactly the manner in which he outlined in one of his speeches. You're just not happy with how he's trying to get there. And of course he's also ALWAYS been a strong supporter of automatic card check. You're just upset that he hasn't gotten it passed and that he hasn't fought for it hard enough in your opinion. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
If by "supporter of both" you mean he said something during a campaign and then did the exact opposite, then yes he is a supporter of both. Most people however judge others by their actions when they have the power to do them rather than by empty words.
1) Single payer has always been off the table since the election. He never even brought up the words post 2008. He approved the exact opposite of single payer. He could have gone straight to the people with a "Medicare for All" approach. He didn't. In fact the vast infrastructure that he has set up to provide profits to private companies guarantees that there will be no hope for single payer in my lifetime. He is committed to cutting Medicare and Social Security. Who have been his Secretaries of the Treasury? Socialists or Wall Street manipulators who should have been put in jail years ago? 2) Card check?It wasn't that he didn't fight hard enough. He didn't fight for it at all. Where was he when the city workers in Wisconsin were on strike in the most important labor moment in the last decade? Nowhere. Silent. Pointedly avoided Wisconsin. 3) Education? He's doing everything to encourage privatization for his corporate friends. Race to the Top means cutting money to school districts that don't privatize. Friend, this is not socialism. Drop me a line when you hear about socialist programs that have appeared under Obama. I'd love to hear about them but I'm not holding my breath. It's just ludicrous to call him any kind of leftist, never mind a socialist. It's one thing to argue policy, but it's just ridiculous to call up down. And again, I'll ask you if you consider Medicare and Social Security as evidence of a Socialist US.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
So because he is kept in check by another party you claim he would not want these things and has jot professed a desire for them. Being obtuse is one thing but you are making it an art form.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
No, they can only keep him in check if he asks for it first. He's the President, remember, he won, he has political capital. Yet he's asked for nothing. You don't need to keep someone in check if they already agree to your agenda. Remember, even Bush couldn't get Medicare and Social Security cuts and this President will. Socialist? Who's being naive, Kay?
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Hi landmark, I think it is a matter of timing and strategy. The President has spent his entire life bathed in hard-left ideas, and has written eloquently in his two autobiographies about his attraction to hard-left ideologues. Despite your characterization of the so-called affordable care act as a giveaway to health insurers, in reality it has moved this country far closer to 100% government-controlled health care than any previous administration's efforts. The President is not immediately enacting communism, but rather a soft form of National-Socialism; the apparent "ownership" of enterprises such as the health insurance companies will continue to appear private, but they will be directed by government policy, and will become non-governmental agents of the government. In this way, the President wis working to achieve, perhaps more slowly than many on the left would like, what Harry Dexter White and Alger Hiss could only dream about.
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
I see, so brute capitalism is really socialism in disguise. Can't wait to own the means of production and share in the profits of the health insurance companies. Please advise when I may pick up my check. The extra money will come in handy since that Socialist has agreed to cut Social Security and Medicare, definitely a Socialist position.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Landmark, if the Presidency were in actuality a dictatorship, (which I suspect there are many who would approve), do you have any doubt that Obama wouldn't have enacted single payer, card check, and any number of other programs that you support? It's just ludicrous to call him anything BUT a leftist. (And I don't recall ever calling him a socialist.)
Medicare and Social Security as evidence of a socialist US? I also don't recall saying that the US was a socialist country. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
I'm sorry, but I think the results we're seeing are congruent with the President's stated objective of transforming America "fundamentally."
On a lighter note, how about Vice President Biden's recent advice to callers concerned about personal security? |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
It's an historical fact that when Social Security was first introduced it was described as socialism by FDR's GOP opposition.
And who can forget Reagan's famous recording in 1961 in which he warned that passing Medicare would mean the end of freedom in America? Reagan said that if his listeners did not write letters to prevent it, "we will awake to find that we have socialism. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
In the American (electoral) political spectrum--black and white pattern, more accurately--Obama is on the left. But with only two choices, one is left and one is right.
In the spectrum of American political thought, Obama is surely very much in the centre. In the spectrum of political thought across the Western democracies, Obama appears to me to be right-centre. Whatever all this means. John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-02-20 15:33, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Are you basing that on what Obama has SAID he would like to accomplish or on what he's been ABLE to accomplish? |
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EsnRedshirt Special user Newark, CA 895 Posts |
Rockwall, while we can all think of notable and inspirational words, in the end, it's usually actions that have the greatest impact.
Woland, I think Biden's got a point. Granted, it's only his opinion. I remember reading somewhere someone answering the question, "Why does anyone need an extended clip?" with "Well what if you were attacked by four people?" My answer to him would be, "Assuming you're on the street, first, why did you put yourself in that position unless you had no choice? Second, warning shot. Or if you're in a place with stand-your-ground laws, shoot one as a warning to the other three. Third, unless your gun is already in your hand, you're still going to get beaten up. And then they're going to steal your gun." Anyway, what do you think of ol' Blade-runner's statement to the police? Quote:
Pistorius said in an affidavit read in court Tuesday that he and girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, a 29-year-old model and budding reality TV star, had gone to bed and that when he awoke during the night he detected what he thought was an intruder in the bathroom. He testified that he grabbed his 9 mm pistol and fired into the bathroom door, only to discover later to his horror that Steenkamp was there, mortally wounded. If it's true, that's great home defense, firing blindly through a door. Into a room with (presumably) no exits. Either way, it's a tragedy.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.
* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Obama made it snow and saved the world from global warming. What more can one ask for?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Hi EsnRedshirt,
The public admission by the Vice President, that it is advisable to keep a firearm in the home, is to me the most significant point. The advice that he reports giving his wife, that if concerned about a sense of possible danger, she just fire a couple of rounds off the back porch into the darkness of the night, is very poor advice, very dangerous, and should NOT be followed. Whether a double-barrelled shotgun is really the best firearm to keep in the home is certainly debatable. The shopkeepers who defended their families and their livelihoods during the Los Angeles riots seem to have thought, from photographs I have seen, that rifles with adequate-capacity magazines made the most sense. I am not going to second guess them. I don't know exactly what happened in Oskar Pistorius's house. However, firing blindly through a door violates one of the most basic rules of firearm safety. You don't unholster a firearm unless you are prepared to use it, you never point the weapon at anything you are unwilling to destroy, you keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot, and you don't fire until you are sure of your target and what is beyond it. |
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GlenD Inner circle LosAngeles, Ca 1293 Posts |
John Kerry... err Secretary of State John Kerry says we got to be at war with nature! Nevermind the aftermath of Benghazi and what all that portends, nevermind Iran or North Korea! We got to figure out how to stop all these storms and floods that keep happening and rising sea levels!
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin
"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!) |
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EsnRedshirt Special user Newark, CA 895 Posts |
Hi Woland,
VP Biden did qualify his statement, saying he lived in a sparsely populated area; I assume this would be very different than firing a shotgun in the city. By his own admission, he was raised with guns, so I assume he knows what he was talking about. (Or you could always go the route in "A View to a Kill" and load the cartridge with rock salt. I'm kidding, of course.) The point (and the point of Pistorius) is that guns are only as safe as the people using them.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.
* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt. |
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