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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Mentally Speaking » » The Scantily Clad Drawing Duplication (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mike Ince
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Anyone who owns this care to compare it to my "Changing the ODDS" from my ebook, Better Returns? First PM gets the routine for review after I get home tonight.
The secret of deception is in making the truth seem ridiculous.
Voodini
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Quote:
On 2013-02-21 10:56, Scott Fridinger wrote:


This is awful! Too difficult. - MagicDud09.

I believe that's a joke. MagicDude used to be some spoiled 13 year old kid who slagged everything off on YouTube.
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Pit Boss
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Quote:
On 2013-02-21 10:58, Mike Ince wrote:
Anyone who owns this care to compare it to my "Changing the ODDS" from my ebook, Better Returns? First PM gets the routine for review after I get home tonight.


Wondering the same thing... really enjoyed your take on this.

JD
Vanderballs
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Quote:
On 2013-02-21 10:59, Voodini wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-02-21 10:56, Scott Fridinger wrote:


This is awful! Too difficult. - MagicDud09.

I believe that's a joke. MagicDude used to be some spoiled 13 year old kid who slagged everything off on YouTube.


I really do need to take that off don't I? I'm alarmed more people don't know who he is!
Vanderballs
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Right, I've just got off the phone to a mentalist who does know ODDS. There is a big similarity, although Scantily adds another element which means that you can do it on the fly - the prep you need to do for ODDS is part of the effect in Scantily. And of course the drawing subject matter isn't limited as it is in ODDS.

Should you buy this if you have ODDS? Honestly... probably not (I can't believe I'm saying that about my own creation LOL)
UNLESS you really really want to be able to do it on the fly with zero prep (I appreciate it wouldn't take overly long to prep for ODDS)
AND
you can't think of a way to do it yourself!
Mike Ince
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Quote:
On 2013-02-21 11:14, Pit Boss wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-02-21 10:58, Mike Ince wrote:
Anyone who owns this care to compare it to my "Changing the ODDS" from my ebook, Better Returns? First PM gets the routine for review after I get home tonight.


Wondering the same thing... really enjoyed your take on this.

JD


Thanks, Pit Boss. Mr. O liked it and was okay with my inclusion of "Changing the ODDS" in my ebook.

When it came time to write up the idea, I felt compelled (and happy) to keep the workings of the ODDS secret so that readers of Better Returns would purchase the original effect from Richard Osterlind. It wasn't too difficult to word my entry in a way that protected his interests while describing my additional thoughts. My goal was to hide the compromise that comes with choosing from a limited range of subjects. I think I clearly explained my variant without encroaching on Richard's territory.

If the Scantily Clad Drawing Duplication is what I hear that it is, performers who use it need to buy ODDS and give Richard his due. Unless I've misunderstood, the bulk of the method is Richard's and, regardless whether Mr. Vanderbelt knew that already or engineered the same method independently, credit goes to the first to publish.
The secret of deception is in making the truth seem ridiculous.
IAIN
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Out of interest (regarding ODDS) - hasn't the principle behind that been out in the community for many, many years and used with all kinds of "items"? certainly in annemann the base idea and usage is there for all to see...(trying to not give anything away here)...
Richard Osterlind
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Quote:
On 2013-02-22 07:42, IAIN wrote:
Out of interest (regarding ODDS) - hasn't the principle behind that been out in the community for many, many years and used with all kinds of "items"? certainly in annemann the base idea and usage is there for all to see...(trying to not give anything away here)...


No. The ODDS idea was not out there.

Exactly what in Annemann are you referring to?
IAIN
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Who first used pictures in "simon's preference"?

not got my Jinx to hand... maybe I meant 13steps...will check at the weekend...
Demitri
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I don't want to speak for Iain, but perhaps he's talking about Annemann's extra sensory perception effect. However, I'm almost positive that Richard has mentioned the Annemann effect in relation to this, and he clearly expanded upon the idea well beyond that effect.

From what I've read on this, I'm beginning to think it also has striking similarities to some of John Rigg's work, as wells as ODDS.
IAIN
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Yeah...thats the one...with the slate too...

and the card step in corinda obviously...

my point was, I thought the only person you'd need to credit would be those two people who invented those ideas...

who was the first person to use photo/pictures in a deck-style? trying to avoid certain terms and its hard.
Richard Osterlind
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Quote:
On 2013-02-23 05:49, IAIN wrote:
Yeah...thats the one...with the slate too...

and the card step in corinda obviously...

my point was, I thought the only person you'd need to credit would be those two people who invented those ideas...

who was the first person to use photo/pictures in a deck-style? trying to avoid certain terms and its hard.



Iain,

Wow! Do you know anything at all about ODDS? I don't want to sound rude, but your posts lead me to suspect that you have never read ODDS or else have no concept of what it is all about.

Richard
IAIN
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No I have it...and you're not sounding rude!

just using this thread for its intended purpose... discussing and sharing opinions...

words on cards... pictures on cards... who was the very first to implement these ideas? not asking to provoke the bear..interested in the history and to learn...
Dr Spektor
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The question is not pictures on materials - heck, we'd have to go back to Ancient Egypt...

I think the question is did ODDS become a certain innovation milestone in the evolution of the genre - in terms of methods or other things?

Many would say yes because...

It took some old methods using another type of cy* s* and made it more powerful by adding in images. There is also built in expansion of what really is limited choices into the mix. The chosen images have a certain way of doing things... and historically speaking, when people tried to go back far enough e.g. The Movie Poster Deck (regular and Horror Films) and similar trace back to ODDS in crediting.

Did RO take other preexisting methods and mix them together alchemically to make it? Of course - but its his choice of mixes and nuances that I can clearly state above that at least demonstrates something new and fresh at that time. Innovations come because certain people are so versed in methods they finally make breakthroughs into the innovative.

What has happened since then is its has been ripped off so often it appears to be an ancient method as old as the Pyramids like NW and so on - but its just the internet age creating mash ups. As time marches on the funny thing is how easy it is to reconstruct the past in multiple ways... unless one really keeps track of these things.

As I am no Max Maven level fellow - I can be completely wrong - but from my store of knowledge and materials at this time - ODDS was an innovative DD that had unique features from other DD's at the time it was produced.

The question is if there is other solid info demo'ing how something came similarly - that is cool. But to say spirit slates etc came before is not specific enough IMHOOOOOO
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IAIN
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So would you say creating an on the fly ODDS style 'deck' (im saying odds style, as it wouldnt have necessarily the other nuances you say) is different/similar/something else?

and what if, the method in this product isn't ODDS in method at all?

we are not saying "putting words on cards is MY IDEA!" surely?!
Dr Spektor
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No, I'm suggesting this:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......rum=82&0

C'mon you know we got to go downstairs.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
DrTodd
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In the absence of permission, it sounds like scantily clad should be pulled...it just seems the gentlemanly thing to do

I remember a certain DD years ago that was also very close to an osterlind first without referencing...

There should be basic decorum and respect for lineage.

In contrast, Simon Shaw got permission for Director's Cut ....
Davit Sicseek
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And that DD is a perfect example of one that shouldn't have been pulled. It was in my opinion a legitimate and sufficient improvment/variation that deserved publication even without permission. Referencing was never an issue. As I recall the effect did reference Osterlind and he even sent the variation to Osterlind and got back a complimentary quote.

I've not got scantily clad to comment.
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DrTodd
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Quote:
On 2013-02-23 12:45, Davit Sicseek wrote:
And that DD is a perfect example of one that shouldn't have been pulled. It was in my opinion a legitimate and sufficient improvment/variation that deserved publication even without permission. Referencing was never an issue. As I recall the effect did reference Osterlind and he even sent the variation to Osterlind and got back a complimentary quote.

I've not got scantily clad to comment.


I might have misremembered the sequence of that event....RIchard could clarify...as I recall the complimentary quote was used out of context...
mormonyoyoman
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Seems these problems are caused not only by lack of familiarity with What Has Gone Before, but with confusion between Foundational Principles and Methods. (And, occasionally, with effects themselves, hence such advertisements as "Just Like Ambitious Card, But on Steroids!") I would be very interested to see the definitions various folks would have for each of these terms:

Principle(s)

Method(s)

Property

Sharing

Voluntary

Involuntary

Force (i.e. - Enforced laws, whether justifiable or not.)


*jeep! & God Bless
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#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
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