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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Mentally Speaking » » The Scantily Clad Drawing Duplication (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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DrTodd
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Agreed....

Comparing the two without revealing either method, there is sufficient overlap between the scantily clad and ODDS that it seems s straightforward exercise to have a lineage section in the document to cover all bases.

A simple pre release sharing would have covered these issues and avoided this thread.

I like both very much, but of the two, will stick to ODDS.

Cheers

Todd
Richard Osterlind
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I have great news for everyone.

Jim and I were about to reprint ODDS in an expanded version. In addition to including some wonderful new ideas, both with the cards and without, we will include the memory system used in Scantily. Although I think it is a time-wasting, inferior routine, it might be informative to readers to compare.

So instead of it costing you 30 lb for a small PDF electronic file containing my ODDS with a minor variation that slows down the routine and accomplishes nothing, you can get the new ODDS, a real book, complete with a beautiful set of printed cards, numerous ideas for presenting the routine that really add value - and the method Scantily uses - all for far less!

:)
Vanderballs
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In an email exchange between Richard and myself, I naturally offered to acknowledge ODDS in the Scantily manuscript.

Richard declined, comparing the difference in method between ODDS and Scantily to 'creating a new card trick that uses red cards instead of blue', which I feel is somewhat over the mark. If I were to make an analogy to a card effect, I'd say that ODDS requires a set-up deck and Scantily allows it to be done with a borrowed deck.

All said and done, I really can't be bothered with petty bickering over a minor release, so Scantily will be pulled. Performing is my bread and butter, not releasing effects so it really doesn't hurt me to do so. Right.... anyone for a cup of tea?
IAIN
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@richard osterlind - I feel that your last post is a very poor show... Simons effect does not reveal your method for ODDS in any way...
Voodini
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I agree with Iain. Poor form.
Voodini - cold reading, past life regressions, remote viewing, Q&A, palm reading, bizarre & seance...
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Anthony Black
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I also agree with Iain. Not nice.

I really enjoyed SCDD and it's a shame it's no longer available for others to enjoy.

- Anthony
SubconsciousSymbols
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Terrible post by R.Osterlind. It smacks of playground bullying and should NOT be tolerated here.

It's a shame when those who are supposedly respectable members of our community act in such a shameful manner. It does not set a great example for those just joining us...

Aw
'The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious'
Richard Osterlind
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Oh, I see. When I do to him what he has already done to me, it's poor form???

How dare you say I have no right to protect my property! ODDS has been on the worldwide market for over 8 years. It was also featured on Mind Mysteries, the best selling mentalism DVD series in history. There was NO EXCUSE for him not to have contacted me before this.

Vanderbelt admitted he knew about ODDS but never saw it. He did no due diligence before marketing his product. He made no attempt to research his product. I was having a private conversation with him about this, before all the fuss, and HE was the one who broke off communication. He then admitted on this board Scantily was like ODDS but continued to sell it.

Listen here! It is not just for my own interests that I protect our property. We have literally thousands of magicians and mentalists who buy and have bought our products and many use them professionally. These people PAID for the secret as well as the props. I am protecting THEIR interests as well. They bought a unique product, either in the form of a book or an instructional DVD, and have the right to know the secret they spent their money on is not being ripped off and disseminated by others. They have come to trust and rely on Osterlind Mysteries as a professional company that puts their interests first and we will continue to guard our secrets both for our benefit and our clients.

This is my last word here on this maddening subject. You all can talk yourself blue in the face for your outrageous beliefs.
Smoking Camel
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Quote:
On 2013-02-24 12:55, SubconsciousSymbols wrote:
Terrible post by R.Osterlind. It smacks of playground bullying and should NOT be tolerated here.

It's a shame when those who are supposedly respectable members of our community act in such a shameful manner. It does not set a great example for those just joining us...

Aw


I don't agree. The post read like a communication from a vendor that has his customers interests at heart and I applaud it. Just because it is blunt and to the point does not make it playground bullying.
I no longer smoke camel cigarettes.
David Thiel
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If you were Osterlind how would you feel? No one is denying ODDS came first. In fact Scantily has been pulled.

Of course he's angry. C'mon guys. Poor form? I think he showed remarkable restraint.

Was proper research done prior to marketing? Nope. When communication was initiated, who broke it off? The whole issue could have been handled in a gentlemanly manner. It was not.

And some of you have the stones to accuse Osterlind of bullying? Seriously?

He is defending his creation and there is nothing wrong with that.

Please think about the actual facts before passing judgement.

David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.


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Davit Sicseek
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It shouldn't come as a surprise that they call it bullying. Anthony whines about me "attacking" and bullying him - when I'm really pointing out that his work is a duplicate of another. When you are gentle and hint around the edges, people don't take notice - then when the truth is unavoidable they resort to ad-hom attacks and the whine of "stop bullying".

As for this particular matter I'm not sure what to think.

It certainly has a lot of support from British members. Why is that?

And as for Osterlind, I've had issue with his hardline stance against works that bear resemblence to his own. We all stand on the shoulders of giants - but don't stand on Osterlinds OR ELSE!

Who's right? Who's wrong? I have no idea - but if I was betting I'd say both Smile

As for Osterlind protecting his customers - this means nothing to me - even though I am one of his customers. I'd rather the art as a whole was protected, and that doesn't always mean protecting every idea until a performers dying day.
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
IAIN
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I'll say it one last time...

IT IS NOT THE SAME METHOD

if it was, I'd agreeing with you

its also not the same presentation...

So are we saying that even though its not the same amount of cards nor the same words, a different method and a different premise...that all those points do not matter?
Voodini
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Whatever the rights and wrongs of this whole sorry situation, good manners cost nothing.

This...

Quote:
On 2013-02-24 08:29, Richard Osterlind wrote:
I have great news for everyone.

Jim and I were about to reprint ODDS in an expanded version. In addition to including some wonderful new ideas, both with the cards and without, we will include the memory system used in Scantily. Although I think it is a time-wasting, inferior routine, it might be informative to readers to compare.




... was intentionally provocative, whether meant as a joke or a serious intention.

As a creator I can sympathise with both positions (Richard's and Simon's), however we're all human beings and surely a certain sense of decorum is called for or it all simply becomes a shouting match.
Voodini - cold reading, past life regressions, remote viewing, Q&A, palm reading, bizarre & seance...
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Vincent V.
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They should not remove it from the market.

It is a great effect and I am sad to say that this time Osterlind is VERY wrong!

Just my humble point of view.
Dr Spektor
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I'm just confused on this point - if Vanderballs says it is very similar in method to ODDS - then how come others say its not? The creator says yes? Maybe I misread the posts.

Anyhow - like I try to do myself - best to stick with clear facts, no inferences, no name calling - just collect times, dates, factual material and collate them transparently and the truth will out.

Can't someone say the differences of ODDS versus SCDD in Inner Thoughts clearly so it can be put to rest??!?
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
IAIN
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There's an echo in here!

not speaking on behalf of anyone, not been asked to either...i am assuming that vanderballs said that because it involves words on cards, and to those not knowing either the methods of ODDS or his SCDD they can look vaguely similar...

with SCDD the words are generated by other people
method is different
different amount of cards
different performance/presentation
Vanderballs
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Dr Spektor, I never said it was similar in method. The similarity begins and ends with the fact there's words written on cards of which a drawing is made. As Iain rightly points out, Scantily involves people generating those words themselves, there is no pre-determind words, no pre-determined amount of words. It is completely impromptu, ODDS is not.

As I said before, I happily offered to acknowledge ODDS in an updated version of Scantily. Richard however said that he doesn't "feel that Scantily has enough independent thought in it to warrant its marketing as a new creation" and that's where our exchange ended. In my opinion Richard is wrong, pure and simple. His analogy that I mentioned earlier is wrong.

He made a post alluding to my method in a public forum. Pretty wrong in my opinion. Now we have a situation that he's re-releasing his effect to include MY method. I believe that to be wrong also.

I admit that I made a mistake in not researching as well as I should have done. I had 'heard of' ODDS prior to my release, in that I recall an ad for it some time ago (possibly in the Radar Deck booklet?) but it since faded from my conscious. As soon as someone, on this thread, pointed out a similarity I tried to rectify that mistake. Richard has been nothing but ungentlemanly in his conduct since.
Voodini
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Quote:
On 2013-02-25 03:17, IAIN wrote:


with SCDD the words are generated by other people
method is different
different amount of cards
different performance/presentation

I don't know ODDS at all, but I do trust Iain to be 100% impartial and he's used the word 'different' enough times in that analysis to convince me.
Voodini - cold reading, past life regressions, remote viewing, Q&A, palm reading, bizarre & seance...
www.readerofminds.co.uk
IAIN
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When I read it, I even told vanderballs the method wasn't for me...cos the technique involved is very difficult for my brain - in my IQ testing I rated very highly for visual and spatial awareness so this kind of work throws me and I struggle to retain it...

however, if you want to do everything 'test conditions' then the SCDD fitted that remit very well...

all this cos someone tried to express himself with "this is ODDS on steroids" (and I'm certainly not faulting the guy) - but it escalated and a rush to claim originality stomped over someone who wasn't actually doing anything wrong (when you look at the facts - and not a biased ooooh look at the name! kinda way)...

I do feel strongly about this, as I think certain behaviour within this so-called 'community' can be very seesaw like, depending on who that person is - I'm sure we all do it to a certain extent, just that in this instance, its gone waaaaay too far)... I feel so strongly about this in fact, that I would even do this if it were davit (sic)seek had released the SCDD...

I think vanderballs has been treated unfairly...
Voodini
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One of the parties involved has behaved like a gent, one hasn't.
Voodini - cold reading, past life regressions, remote viewing, Q&A, palm reading, bizarre & seance...
www.readerofminds.co.uk
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