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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Aronson from New Deck Order - solved by Eric Richardson (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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baobow
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http://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-d......ks/tour/

This could be a big game changer for Aronson Stack users
Cain
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Well, I'm pleased to see Aronson users will get so much more than stack-to-NDO as this includes a collection of tricks. As a non-Aronson user not wanting specifics, I'm curious about the broad method. Is it like Ortiz's Si Stebbins secret, which uses runs of cards and faros, or does this involve a set up trick(s)?
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Vlad_77
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Ordered this last night and watched the accompanying video to get a sense of what it's all about. The following is just some impressions from watching the video. I have not looked at the 160 page e-book yet for the effects and other nuances, tips, and touches that Eric Richardson provides.

First off Eric's teaching is peppered with a quirky sense of humor and he also takes great pains to make sure you are keeping up and really provides a lot of tips in terms of motivation for certain actions, etc., in other words, the teaching on the video is really excellent. The video itself is well shot and thank God, there are no stupid special effects - leave those to Star Trek - Eric does a brief intro then he gets right to businees. That is the way magic videos should be. Bibliophiles take note: when you watch the video, try not to get distracted by trying to identify the titles on Eric's shelf. Suffice to say it's a healthy library. Smile

But I digress, let's get back to these impressions. The method is not for beginners, neither mechanically nor presentationally. Actually the two are so linked that without some sharp performance chops, the learner will have a steeper hill to climb. That said, the challenge would be worth it not only for getting into Aronson, but in sharpening skills - multitasking - and there is a lot of that. I am not saying this to scare anyone off and no I am not talking about Earick type material. An intermediate card worker can do this; an intermediarte card worker will good presentational skills will do it more quickly.

Aronson is a memdeck and the method of getting into it itself requires quite a bit of memory in terms of sequence but, since it is assumed that the learner knows the Aronson stack, remembering the phases should not take long. Richardson offers some nice practice tips to get the sequences down, and of course, you can always use your favorite memory method to get it in yer noggin. One of the things I really liked was the pacing of the video. It moves along at the right pace and I didn't feel rushed nor did I feel that frustrating sense of "okay, I know that, please move on?" In addition, the sequences you need to learn are taught from an over the shoulder perspective reminiscent of Daryl's "super practice" shots from his Encyclopedia of Card Sleights except that Eric is teaching as he is working from that angle.

This video is crammed with all kinds of tips and nuances that really facilitate learning the method, and, at 48 minutes, really covers a lot of ground. I hope to have a look at the e-book later tonight after a band audition.

One caveat - and again this may be addressed in the e-book - is that the method requires a little bit of real estate (a table) and the active involvement of a number of spectators so you have to pick your spots. The method shown on the video really depends on the involvement of more than a couple of spectators otherwise the actions are unmotivated. Eric mentions that the method really works best when you are going to do a gig and you request that a sealed pack of cards are bought and present for you when you arrive.

The method works as advertised and it's very nice. I applaud Eric Richardson for the hours he must have put in working out all of these combinations. Be aware that it will be a few minutes before you can use the deck in Aronson, but, in a formal setting, you have a lot more leeway. Obviously, you could start your set with some coin or other work. In my estimation, it wouldn't make sense to start with a different deck, thus openinfg with some card effects then going to the sealed deck. Yes, you could explain that what you are going to do nexrt is to prove(?) that everything is on the up and up, but, I think that such an explanation weakens the effects you have done earlier. I hasten to add however that the preceeding is just my thinking and what I sense would work for me.

Over the years on The Café and in that place we call the real world, I have read and heard the question of whether it is possible to get to Aronson from NDO and the answer was always no unless you used a DS (Duh!) Smile. Well now it is possible and the solution is elegant. You won't be doing this ten minutes after watching the video, but, if you have always wanted to get to your Aronson as well as stack independent effects and you didn't want to to a DS, you have your answer here. Also, I am thinking what a weapon to have if you are ever handed a sealed pack of cards and challenged to do some magic. Yes, you can always do magic from a sealed pack, but, now the game has been upped because your choices have grown exponentially.

Oh, it's not on the video, but in the e-book there is a way to get from Aronson to NDO.

I hasten to remind you that this is not a review but I really like what I have seen thus far.

Kudos to Eric Richardson for creating this and also to Vanishing, Inc., who have once again produced a splendid product. You get a 48 minute well shot video, a 160 page e-book crammed with effects and ideas and much more for a paltry 12.00 USD. This could have been sold as a physical book with accompanying DVD for 5 times the price. So, if you do memdeck work, you would be foolish to pass this bargain up. It has garnered praise from the top memdeck workers in the field including our own encyclopedic memdeck maven Dennis Loomis.

Namaste,
Vlad

PS: Apologies for the typos folks
Bosco J.
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Generally, Vanishing Inc emails in inbox = lighter wallet Smile.

Thank you Vlad for that helpful (typical Vlad) review. If that was "just some impressions", I can't imagine what a thorough review would be (It would be excellent and insightful I'm sure Smile)!

The idea of achieving an Aronson stack from NDO and back is very exciting. Many who are torn between learning the Tamariz- Mnemonica stack and Aronson now have another excellent feature to consider.

Granted, it will require some chops (i.e. the ability to c*ll, f*ro, run and shuffle cards) and presentation skills to accomplish this but having it in your toolbox will be invaluable.

The ebook has many nice routines and contributions from Joshua Jay, Joel Givens, Giles Cartwright, Paul Thomey, Jan Foster(Cafe Member), Denis Behr, Tyler Wilson and others.

Thank you Eric Richardson and Vanishing, Inc for putting out a "hefty" product at a such a "wimpy" price.

Bosco
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Thanks for the write-up, Vlad.

I was excited to see this when I got an email about it yesterday. I'm not buying any magic stuff this month so this will have to wait but as this is billed as the 3rd in a trilogy of his on Aronson, I really want to get all three. Just two weeks ago I got Bound to Please which is great. I've had the stack in my head for not quite two years but didn't know what all I could do with it.

For me, NDO to Aronson doesn't sounds like something I'd come upon much if at all. BUT Aronson to NDO could be fun.
- Robert
newguy
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Bought it and watched it last night. It is priced correctly.
Be aware that this "solution" requires the performance of a routine to get there and the shuffleS sequences are no where near as straightforward as Ortiz (Stebbins) Annemann (Stebbins) or Tamariz approaches.
Vlad_77
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On 2013-02-15 10:15, newguy wrote:
Bought it and watched it last night. It is priced correctly.
Be aware that this "solution" requires the performance of a routine to get there and the shuffleS sequences are no where near as straightforward as Ortiz (Stebbins) Annemann (Stebbins) or Tamariz approaches.


I guess I'm not getting what you mean by "it's priced correctly." One thing that I thik bears stating is that getting into Si Stebbins is more straight forward for obvious reasons - and no I am not belittling Darwin Ortiz by ANY means. The nature of the Aronson is nowhere near as "straight forward" as Si Stebbins. As for the Tamariz solutions, I would argue that of the two approaches offered to get into his stack, the method without the shuffles seems even less direct for lack of a better term and far less motivated than either the shuffle method - which the master Senor Tamariz explains first - or the method worked out by Eric Richardson for Aronson.

I also mentioned that there is a procedure. On the video and in the e-book you get some ideas on how to proceed. The problem with writing reviews and/or impressions in magic and mentalism is that you cannot go into specifics. I found your putting the term solution in quotes quite curious. Sure, if we were "real" magicians, the cards would just sort into what we needed, but then again, if we were "real" magicians, would we be doing card magic? I know I wouldn't. Smile So yes, call it an effect or whatever, but I find the word "beware" to be curious as well. Are you implying by the beware that people should approach with caution? Respectfully submitted butbeyond the means of a DS, how else are the cards going to sort?

I will wager that people will play with this and come up with other handlings - such is the nature of the art and that's a good thing.

Opinions are like noses as you know Smile and if you believe this is priced correctly then you don't feel ripped off. I feel that it is a bargain - and an elegant soltion to a vexing problem - so I am happy as well. I think it is hard to put a price on/quantify knowledge. I have seen one trick DVDs go for 3 times the price. This begs the question of whether one is paying for the effect, or the DVD processing or both. In this case, you get a hefty e-bbok plus 48 minutes of detailed instruction, and I remind Café members thinking about this that in addition to the praise it has garnered, you get a nice - pardon the pun - stack of effects as well. Please understand newguy, that my impressions were of necessity based upon the filling of a vaccum as it were and I stand by my assertion that it IS underpriced and that in a formal gig, or a challenge situation, this solution is quite elegant. Thanks for offering your thoughts as well, afterall, the Café is about magicians helping magicians and the more voices chiming in help others to make their decisions. As for me, I am pleased to be an early adopter of this and I anticipate that this will be well received given the caveats I have mentioned.

Namaste,
Vlad
kerpa
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Well I don't think it's "priced correctly" Smile I think this is one of the greatest bargains I've every seen for memdeck work! I love how crystal clear the whole production is - book and video, especially this fantastic video.

Somehow, stage 2 reminds me of Lew Brooks' work - anybody else agree?

I have one question, which I'll pose here, but perhaps answers should go to Secret Sessions. I don't think though it needs to. My quesiton is: anyone know whether the #15 #25 switch affects any specific routines of Aronson's or of anyone else's? I will start looking through.

Great job!
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JanForster
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No, both sevens, just hearts and diamonds switch. No problem at all if you know it Smile Jan
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S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2013-02-16 14:38, kerpa wrote:
My quesiton is: anyone know whether the #15 #25 switch affects any specific routines of Aronson's or of anyone else's?

It will ruin the six-card spelling stack (#10 - #15). (Well, it'll turn it into a five-card spelling stack (#10 - #14).)
Vlad_77
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Quote:
On 2013-02-16 14:38, kerpa wrote:
Well I don't think it's "priced correctly" Smile I think this is one of the greatest bargains I've every seen for memdeck work! I love how crystal clear the whole production is - book and video, especially this fantastic video.

Somehow, stage 2 reminds me of Lew Brooks' work - anybody else agree?

I have one question, which I'll pose here, but perhaps answers should go to Secret Sessions. I don't think though it needs to. My quesiton is: anyone know whether the #15 #25 switch affects any specific routines of Aronson's or of anyone else's? I will start looking through.

Great job!


Bear in mind that Eric Richardson addresses this and you need to do one more little step to reverse the switch.
Vlad_77
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I need to add one important thing I forgot to mention, there is also another companion video that teaches how to get from Aronson to NDO. After a series of card effects, ending with NDO is IMHO a smashing finale. For the past seven years I have used Henry Evans' Perfect Triumph. Now I have another choice when working with a memdeck and don't want the DS! Why not save the DS for other interesting and curious things? Smile
Turk
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Quote:
On 2013-02-18 07:01, Vlad_77 wrote:
I need to add one important thing I forgot to mention, there is also another companion video that teaches how to get from Aronson to NDO. After a series of card effects, ending with NDO is IMHO a smashing finale. For the past seven years I have used Henry Evans' Perfect Triumph. Now I have another choice when working with a memdeck and don't want the DS! Why not save the DS for other interesting and curious things? Smile


Vlad,

I know I'm going to regret asking, but, what does "DS" stand for? All I can think of is "Destroyed Stack". I'm pretty certain that that is not what DS stands for, but, the answer must be so obvious that I can't see the forest for the trees. (grin) If it might be more appropriate to share this info via PM, would you please consider doing so?

Thanks, in advance, for the info.

Mike
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Eschew obfuscation.
kerpa
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PM sent
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Turk
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Quote:
On 2013-02-18 23:10, kerpa wrote:
PM sent


Thanks for the info, kerpa.

I intuitively knew that I'd regret asking what "DS" meant. (grin) Man! I feel like someone who just started out in magic yesterday. (double grin)

Mike
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This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto.

Eschew obfuscation.
Stratton Magic
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Quote:
On 2013-02-17 00:31, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-02-16 14:38, kerpa wrote:
My quesiton is: anyone know whether the #15 #25 switch affects any specific routines of Aronson's or of anyone else's?

It will ruin the six-card spelling stack (#10 - #15). (Well, it'll turn it into a five-card spelling stack (#10 - #14).)


Just so everyone knows, Eric includes methods in the pdf to spell to BOTH of the sevens that end up getting switched, without making any adjustments in the order of the cards. So, in a way, it actually increases it to a seven-card spelling stack Smile
Stratton Magic
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To add a very small partial review: I picked up this PDF (along with Eric's other two ebooks on the Aronson stack) as soon as I got the promotional email. I haven't learned a stack yet; I've had Mnemonica for years but never took the leap of committing it to memory. Right now I'm looking into the different effects built in to both orders.

My feeling after reading the NDO transitions (into and out of) for Aronson is, if you're already using that stack, this is a pretty cool way to open up some doors, although the methodology and linked presentation might not be for everyone. If you haven't chosen a stack yet, and are keen on the ability to go from NDO to stack and vice-versa, bear in mind that the procedure for the Tamariz stack is much more direct - even when you factor in the adjustments to alter the American NDO. Not saying that either method is better/worse/easier/harder/tastier than the other, just that if you were doing a comparison exclusively on efficiency, Richardson/Aronson wouldn't be the winner.

That said, what interests me most is going from memdeck order to NDO. Both Tamariz and Aronson use a trick to do this, and while the Tamariz one is more straightforward, I am going to explore a little more to see if I like Eric's better as an effect.

Also please note that these opinions only are geared towards the NDO sections of TOUR. There are several other effects in the ebook that I haven't taken a look at yet.
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So is this method easier or more difficult than the much dreaded and feared "DS"?
I know stupid question because the obvious objective is going from NDO to AS.

Now, why is it so valued to be able to do such?
Someone tossing you an UOD and you wanting to use an AS effect is all I can come up with.
Anything else?
Vlad_77
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Quote:
On 2013-02-21 19:27, silvercup wrote:
So is this method easier or more difficult than the much dreaded and feared "DS"?
I know stupid question because the obvious objective is going from NDO to AS.

Now, why is it so valued to be able to do such?
Someone tossing you an UOD and you wanting to use an AS effect is all I can come up with.
Anything else?


The thing with memdeck work - and I hope Dennis Loomis and Jan Forster and other memdeck specialists will chime in - is that you are not or do not have to do just one effect. One of the cool things about these is that even with genuine shuffles, chunks of the stack are still preserved and this little bit of mathematical wonderfulness has been utilized by quite a few workers.

But that doesn't answer your question obviously so let's see if I can provide a bit of fodder for you. Eric talks about having your hostess/host have a sealed pack bought and ready for your performance. Now, a DS will not work here because you would have no idea what kind of cards the person has bought. I will add that you wouldn't want to specify a brand either for reasons that should be obvious. Just as in Darwin Ortiz's Si Stebbins secret, you can use ANY pack and do things that simply are mind blowing because you are working from a sealed deck that is not yours. In my first impressions post I mentioned a scenario in which you are presented with sealed pack of cards as a challenge. Yes, you could bust open the pack and do all sorts of magic per usual. But, working with a memdeck gives you a LOT more possibilities. Let's face it, memdecks allow you to accomplish certain effects that pure sleight of hand simply do not or these same effects would only be possible if you had the chops of a Jason England, Richard Turner, Darwin Ortiz, Terry LaGerould - well you get the picture.

In an informal performance or in walkaround and restaurant work, yes, a DS is the more efficient way to go but IMHO in a formal setting you can really play this up. Perhaps you could have the hostess/host buy a selection of decks and have the audience choose which deck you are using.

All of that said, it's important to bear in mind that many magicians have wanted a way to accomplish NDO to Aronson (and back too) and Eric Richardson has come up with the first solution to this. What value it has ultimately depends upon the individual performer and for many - myself included - this is pure platinum. Memdecks are extremely powerful weapons and so much can be done with them. Doing "one" Aronson effect after getting into the order is inefficient I agree. But, suppose you have a set in which Aronson is the M.O. Now you have a way to work into it AND with the psychological advantage of using a deck that is not yours, and no guess work for a DS. Also, imagine that in a formal setting, how impromptu it all looks. I hope that last sentence made sense. Smile

In the end, if you don't think it's something that you would use, obviously your 12 USD can be spent on something else. As much as Schoolcraft and Lassen coins are praised, I don't do enough coin magic to justify the purchase, so I stick with Johnson products. If you don't do a lot of memdeck work and/or you don't get the opportunity to do more formal gigs, then maybe this product is not for you. Now, THAT said, Eric teaches some cool techniques that can be used with non memdeck magic. That is also one of the reasons I feel that 12 USD is a bargain.

Namaste,
Vlad
JanForster
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There is basically nothing to add, Vlad. You hit the nail. And besides the main purpose of Eric's book I think that the value you get from it is a bargain indeed, whether you will use the strategies to get from NDO to Aronson or vice versa or not, it doesn't change a lot - it is still a bargain. At least you should study Eric's approach; only that will improve your abilities and knowledge already a lot, stimulate you probably to come up with own solutions. Jan
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