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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Mentally Speaking » » Another $10 wasted (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Amirá
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NYNick, thanks for your comments. Gladly that you didn't die.

John, you still didn't give me solid arguments about your allegation of not release new ideas.
I will reply again in here after , privately, you send me further information.


Paul, you are the man in several reasons, you know why.



Best
Pablo
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mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2013-02-21 11:56, Simon (Ted) Edwards wrote:
Hi Paul,
Is PRISM not a compendium of the Color Series booklets? I don't honestly know how many, if any, of the effects in each booklet were republished elsewhere. I certainly think that all were devised by Max and not other authors though.
T.


Yes, it is a compendium of the Color Series. Max Maven lifted all of the material in Prism from Phil Goldstein. Smile
Steven Keyl
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Not only that, but Max now claims he wrote all that material himself! Phil is not credited anywhere! Outrageous...
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!

Come visit Magic Book Report.com!

"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain
Simon (Ted) Edwards
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Hah! How shameless!
T.
Paul Shirley
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Quote:
On 2013-02-21 11:56, Simon (Ted) Edwards wrote:
Hi Paul,
Is PRISM not a compendium of the Color Series booklets? I don't honestly know how many, if any, of the effects in each booklet were republished elsewhere. I certainly think that all were devised by Max and not other authors though.
T.


G'day Simon.

There are a number of effects where Max attributes the original method, and/or idea that he has taken from somewhere else, and turned in to a new piece. All I'm saying is... Had Max not taken these ideas, put his own twist on them, and the published the Clolor Series/Prism, I would probably never had heard of them.... (Which would be a shame) as the original, potentially out of print books in which they came from .... would be hard to find.
JohnWells
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Quote:
On 2013-02-21 11:58, Amirá wrote:
John, you still didn't give me solid arguments about your allegation of not release new ideas.
I will reply again in here after , privately, you send me further information.



I've detailed the reasions for contention here, and privately given you a list of nearly a dozen sources to check out, which you should have done before publishing IDS anyway. There are no arguments necessary. Either your publication is significantly like other available material or it isn't. I assert that it is, and invite anyone with a familiarity with IDS and Switchcraft and other sources to confirm or deny my assessment.

I have invited you, both publicly and privately, to point out specifically one improvement on a previously existing idea in IDS. You have asserted they are there, but are either unwilling or unable to say on page X, this change is better than idea x from a source credited in the routine. If you can provide one such example, my argument is refuted. You have not done so, and your reluctance is...suggestive.

While you have called attention to the pellet switch, the method is identical to several others in print, of which I pointed you to many sources. Again, anyone with a familiarity with pellet switching can confirm or correct my assessment. I have been careful to detail reasons for my position, careful to make clear that there is not a motive of personal attack in my review (indeed, argued against those that have), and attempted to accord you the same respect that you have shown me.

At this point, there is nothing more for me to say, indeed, this is repitition. Either demonstrate my error with facts, and anyone else is invited to do the same, or consider the matter a draw. I do not expect or intend for you to agree with my position, though given adequate warrant, I am entirely willing to reassess my opinion. I've made this clear to you privately, and if and when I receive your evidence, I will publicly recant my position. What more can you ask of me?
Amirá
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Quote:
On 2013-02-21 22:51, JohnWells wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-02-21 11:58, Amirá wrote:
John, you still didn't give me solid arguments about your allegation of not release new ideas.
I will reply again in here after , privately, you send me further information.



I've detailed the reasions for contention here, and privately given you a list of nearly a dozen sources to check out, which you should have done before publishing IDS anyway. There are no arguments necessary. Either your publication is significantly like other available material or it isn't. I assert that it is, and invite anyone with a familiarity with IDS and Switchcraft and other sources to confirm or deny my assessment.

I have invited you, both publicly and privately, to point out specifically one improvement on a previously existing idea in IDS. You have asserted they are there, but are either unwilling or unable to say on page X, this change is better than idea x from a source credited in the routine. If you can provide one such example, my argument is refuted. You have not done so, and your reluctance is...suggestive.

While you have called attention to the pellet switch, the method is identical to several others in print, of which I pointed you to many sources. Again, anyone with a familiarity with pellet switching can confirm or correct my assessment. I have been careful to detail reasons for my position, careful to make clear that there is not a motive of personal attack in my review (indeed, argued against those that have), and attempted to accord you the same respect that you have shown me.

At this point, there is nothing more for me to say, indeed, this is repitition. Either demonstrate my error with facts, and anyone else is invited to do the same, or consider the matter a draw. I do not expect or intend for you to agree with my position, though given adequate warrant, I am entirely willing to reassess my opinion. I've made this clear to you privately, and if and when I receive your evidence, I will publicly recant my position. What more can you ask of me?


Well, I want that your argument goes beyond repetition and tell me exactly, in privately first of all, the exact publications which you think that my routine come from.
Again you are asking for new ideas on my routine and I am still holding the fact that has that benefit. Just today I perform my routine and I realize that the idea to give the billet in which I wrote my revelation to the participant, as far as I know, is an improvement and something of value.

It´s a simple idea ? Yes , almost just like a little realization. But adds something like all the things that we discuss privately.

Please let me know your reference and don't just tell me "check Switchcraft, Annemann and Cassidy". Surely those and other were references on IDS for further learning. I state clearly my direct inspiration on creating my piece.

If a serious third party wants to read my IDS, and especifically the eBook in question , "IDS 2.0", please PM me and we can get a different opinion about this.

I don't really want to change your mind John, you can think and feel whatever you want about my work, but I don't want to leave the impression that my work in general follows the path that you suggest.

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Pablo
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Vincent V.
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Honestly Pablo I don't like your material at all, it's bad, really bad.
JohnWells
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That minor improvement is alreadyy in print in Switchcraft. Just because you came up with it does not give you a right to publish it if you failed to get it into print first.

I've given you references as complete as those in your book. I am not taking the time to do the due dilligence that was your responsibility prior to releasing the material, though if you insist I will do so, with the proviso that my analysis be posted publicly on this forum.
Dr Spektor
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IMHO if you do that post the analysis in inner thoughts with a link to it here as it likely will involve details better described there?

Vv - IMHO feedback needs to be specific based on clearly observable facts to link to the discussion - blanket vitriolic statements do not help anyone learn anything but rather increase hostility and defensive reactions

One more IMHO - a new thread on what John is speaking about - likely worthy of a sticky status - as when reviewing etc an item - an almost academic / lineage / etc best practice principles could be discussed and created - ie I got new clue regarding ids but I know there are plenty of works across the boards that are rip offs and uncredited quickly releases dearly designed o make a fast buck.... And perhaps they should be labelled.

I just wrote a blog entry for a healthcare community of practice on what I call the cut-and-paste world -where plagerism is now almost an unconscious phenomena as our society mistakes freedom of ideas with freedom to take anything out there

Iiiii
Mmmmm
Hahhhhhaaa
Ooooooooooooo


(Example -see this fellows request...what are the basic criteria to truly to a review and answer)

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......um=159&0
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Amirá
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John: You still didn't give me what I really ask for via PM to valid your argument.

I will reply again to you once I got that.
You tell me that the idea of giving back the billet isn't new. I am not refering to the one in which you need a new "element", rather using just the drawing itself ( a little bit cryptic here , for those who had my routine).

Yes, the structure of IDS is similar to other billet work? So what!
The swi*ch isn't new at all ( Al Baker one without TT) So what!

I used a finesse made popular by Mr. Cassidy , didn't give him credits?

Elliot told me that it was similar to a routine from Switchcraft... And place his publication as reference for further study due the fact I didn't read that specific routine before.

My criteria is this: Adds something new? ( even just my version of a previous work) : Is valid, and even with your argument, I still consider my routine as such.


Even with IDS 2.0 I gave a link to a video streaming in which I perform the routine and explain several thougths and strategies that were not covered on the written explanation.



My english is a little broken? Yes , an I do my best to ask for proofread by english speakers before publishing my work, but I don't believe that a publication of mine lacks value.
Maybe IDS uses ideas from previous works with simple details that make something new. Well , I take that.



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Pablo
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JohnWells
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In other words, you admit there's nothing new in it, more or less, but because you thought of it by yourself it's ok to publish it. Most of us do not follow that practice. If we did, I would, under your logic, be within my rights to sell my own versions of the techniques known as Acidus Globus and Obsidian Oblique, both of which I developed independently of Millard Longman and Alain Bellon. But that would be unethical, as is, I believe, your stance.

Because I believe in putting my money where my mouth is, I make the following offer: Pablo offered me a free ebook by way of conciliation, and I suggested that he instead give a free copy of IDS 2.o to a neutral, knowledgable party to confirm or correct my contention. Since he has failed to respond to that suggestion, I will reimburse one person who purchases IDS 2.0 from lybrary.com the $9 if they will agree to post an unbiased examination of our mutual claims. Obviously, I expect any would be arbitrators to be well versed mentalists, so I invite you to pm me if you would like to accept my offer.
Amirá
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Where did I say that there is nothing new John?

I cant find that information on my reply. I believe that there is new ideas on IDS.
Maybe not a full new technique , but a routine full with little finesses that can create mindreading in good hands.


Best
Pablo
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Mentalism Center: The best online space to get quality Mentalism
www.mentalismcenter.com

Arkanosophy: The Boutique for Mystery Performers
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Dr Spektor
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What is Is the Was of What Shall Be
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
JohnWells
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This is going to be my last post, unless someone wishes to mpass judgment on my position. The issue is this:

1. I assert. That is, I do not argue, moving from point to point to reach a conclusion, rather I state that anyone with familiarity with the standard techniques of billet work (in particular the contents of Switchcraft, the works of Annemann and Bob CAssidy), upon reading IDS 2.0 will not find anything that is an improvement or innovation on previously published material, that in neither the effect, method, or presentation, has Amira offered anything unique to his handling.

2. Because the custom in the business is to give credit to the one who got it in print first, and not publish your "original version" unles it is a significant improvement on that already in print, on the basis of my initial assessment, I assert also that Pablo amira should not have offered IDS 2.0 as a stand alone product, and that doing so may be construed as a breach of accepted ethics. (Though the latter point I will not press.)

3. To test my theory, I will reimburse one new purchaser of IDS with the requisite knowledge detailed in point 1. the cost of IDS 2.0 if they will publicly offer a neutral evaluation of my position. Those who would like to tae advantage of this offer may contact me via pm.
Dr Spektor
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This is a Kobiyashi Maru situation
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Davit Sicseek
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John Wells gone done put the smack-down down.

BOSH.
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
Amirá
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And Amira falls KO. KAPOOM


Best
Pablo
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Mentalism Center: The best online space to get quality Mentalism
www.mentalismcenter.com

Arkanosophy: The Boutique for Mystery Performers
www.arkanosophy.com
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